There is really no point in trying out all the images. All you need to do to see what a particular CD supports is to mount it and look in the .inf file and then compare the PCI ID for your card with what is in the .inf file.

I already modified all the X-Fi driver image descriptions as well as uploaded a few that were not on Vogonsdrivers already.

I do have at least one Live! CD and I could go through all the images and see what CDs support what models as I should have at least 1 copy of each Live! model.

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-04-11, 20:32:

There is really no point in trying out all the images. All you need to do to see what a particular CD supports is to mount it and look in the .inf file and then compare the PCI ID for your card with what is in the .inf file.

I already modified all the X-Fi driver image descriptions as well as uploaded a few that were not on Vogonsdrivers already.

I do have at least one Live! CD and I could go through all the images and see what CDs support what models as I should have at least 1 copy of each Live! model.

I'll try that, but I haven't done it before. Can you tell me which file to look at in the root? The only one I see is autorun.inf. And then what program do I use to find the PCI ID? Thanks!

The PCI ID can be found in device manager. Each pnp device will have it listed.

I would have to look where exactly the .inf file is but it should be in the same folder as the driver files.

I have the full original SoundBlaster Live! purchased new in 1998 (I think the base card was the CT4620 plus the SPDIF digital output/MIDI breakout board). It's drivers were for Windows 9x/NT 4.0 only and that's likely what the 1998 dated CD is from. It also came with a terrible v1.0 DOS emulation driver that had zero FM synth emulation and a useless toolbar. The original bundle was 4 CDs worth of software and audio demos.

Also, one notorious CD image is missing. The Live!Ware 2000 release that came out with official Windows 2000 drivers around April 2000. Creative had one heck of a nerve charging their customers for these driver software packages.

I bought a Sound Blaster Live! 1024 Value back in mid-2000 (model number CT4830) and I still have that card's installation CD.
The disk contains the standard Creative software and drivers for Windows 95, 98, NT4 & 2000.
The files were created on the disc on 12 April 2000, but the Windows 95/98 & NT4 drivers dates back to October 1999.
I've uploaded it to my OneDrive account which can be copied to Vogonsdrivers (link below):
https://1drv.ms/f/s!ApmeVYI0PZURhBkhDLBn36r_CSHI

Under the \\Audio\ENGLISH\Win95drv folder, there are three *.inf files where I could see PCI ID's:
OEMEMU.INF
CT4780 - SBLive! Value (PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002&SUBSYS_80221102)

CTGT10K1.INF
CT4831 - SBLive! Value (PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002&SUBSYS_80311102)

CTOM10K1.INF
CT4830 - SBLive! Value (PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002&SUBSYS_80261102)
CT4832 - SBLive! Value (PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002&SUBSYS_80271102)

jesolo wrote on 2020-04-12, 14:35:

I bought a Sound Blaster Live! 1024 Value back in mid-2000 (model number CT4830) and I still have that card's installation CD. T […]
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I bought a Sound Blaster Live! 1024 Value back in mid-2000 (model number CT4830) and I still have that card's installation CD.
The disk contains the standard Creative software and drivers for Windows 95, 98, NT4 & 2000.
The files were created on the disc on 12 April 2000, but the Windows 95/98 & NT4 drivers dates back to October 1999.
I've uploaded it to my OneDrive account which can be copied to Vogonsdrivers (link below):
https://1drv.ms/f/s!ApmeVYI0PZURhBkhDLBn36r_CSHI

Under the \\Audio\ENGLISH\Win95drv folder, there are three *.inf files where I could see PCI ID's:
OEMEMU.INF
CT4780 - SBLive! Value (PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002&SUBSYS_80221102)

CTGT10K1.INF
CT4831 - SBLive! Value (PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002&SUBSYS_80311102)

CTOM10K1.INF
CT4830 - SBLive! Value (PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002&SUBSYS_80261102)
CT4832 - SBLive! Value (PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002&SUBSYS_80271102)

Thank you so much! I just downloaded the ISO. If it works with CT4780 and CT4830, it will be a very helpful CD. Will report back.

A partial success! The CD works with a CT4780 perfectly -- a 100% smooth install.

Although I had a 100% smooth install with the CT4830, I could only the faintest of sounds in Windows or DOS. If I cranked my speakers, I could barely hear sound. I tried two different CT4830 cards in two different 98SE setups (440BX-2 and KT133A).

So I don't believe looking at the INF file only is an accurate way to ascertain compatibility. Of course, there could be different versions of the CT4830. I couldn't find the Device and Subsystem ID in Device Manager, but Everest Home displays it. There's a match for the CT4780, and I haven't looked at CT4830 yet.

It makes me wonder if I could get it to work by renaming the INF files. Maybe when I'm feeling more masochistic.

boxpressed wrote on 2020-04-12, 17:34:

A partial success! The CD works with a CT4780 perfectly -- a 100% smooth install. […]
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A partial success! The CD works with a CT4780 perfectly -- a 100% smooth install.

Although I had a 100% smooth install with the CT4830, I could only the faintest of sounds in Windows or DOS. If I cranked my speakers, I could barely hear sound. I tried two different CT4830 cards in two different 98SE setups (440BX-2 and KT133A).

So I don't believe looking at the INF file only is an accurate way to ascertain compatibility. Of course, there could be different versions of the CT4830. I couldn't find the Device and Subsystem ID in Device Manager, but Everest Home displays it. There's a match for the CT4780, and I haven't looked at CT4830 yet.

It makes me wonder if I could get it to work by renaming the INF files. Maybe when I'm feeling more masochistic.

Come to think of it, I seem to recall the sound playback also being very quiet after the installation of the drivers from the CD -ROM.
There might be some "gain" controls under the Mixer settings. I cannot recall, as it has been almost 20 years since I've installed my card with a Windows 98SE setup.
I noticed that there is an "UPDDRV95.EXE" file in the \Win95drv folder. Perhaps run that and see if it makes a difference?

I set up practically all of my Windows 98 setups as a dual boot system between DOS 7.1 and Windows 9x (the former to play the later DOS titles that were better suited for Pentium and later PC's). I therefore prefer to pair my setup with an ISA sound card for better DOS compatibility and, hence why I use an AWE64 in my Pentium III Windows 98 setup. If your intention is to only have a Windows 98 setup (with no DOS games), then I agree that it's probably better to go with a Live! or Audigy sound card, since DOS compatibility is then not so important.

To find the Device & Sybsystem ID's under Windows 98, you have to go into the registry.
Have a look at this page: https://forums.techguy.org/threads/windows-98.332891/

jesolo wrote on 2020-04-12, 19:24:

Come to think of it, I seem to recall the sound playback also being very quiet after the installation of the drivers from the CD […]
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Come to think of it, I seem to recall the sound playback also being very quiet after the installation of the drivers from the CD -ROM.
There might be some "gain" controls under the Mixer settings. I cannot recall, as it has been almost 20 years since I've installed my card with a Windows 98SE setup.
I noticed that there is an "UPDDRV95.EXE" file in the \Win95drv folder. Perhaps run that and see if it makes a difference?

I set up practically all of my Windows 98 setups as a dual boot system between DOS 7.1 and Windows 9x (the former to play the later DOS titles that were better suited for Pentium and later PC's). I therefore prefer to pair my setup with an ISA sound card for better DOS compatibility and, hence why I use an AWE64 in my Pentium III Windows 98 setup. If your intention is to only have a Windows 98 setup (with no DOS games), then I agree that it's probably better to go with a Live! or Audigy sound card, since DOS compatibility is then not so important.

To find the Device & Sybsystem ID's under Windows 98, you have to go into the registry.
Have a look at this page: https://forums.techguy.org/threads/windows-98.332891/

I'm pretty sure that a driver incompatibility is why the CT4830 did not work. You see, I started with the CT4830, got the 100% smooth install, but then no sound. But rather than reimage the HDD right away, I popped in the CT4780 (after trying another CT4830, as stated earlier), and it worked perfectly.

So I went into the registry and discovered that only two of the subsystem ID's from your post are listed:

CT4780 - SBLive! Value (PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002&SUBSYS_80221102)
CT4831 - SBLive! Value (PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002&SUBSYS_80311102)

Also, the 8021102 is rev 08 and the 80311102 is rev 07.

No IDs for the CT4830. It's possible it would appear if I installed the CT4830, which I may do, but it would explain why the CT4830 doesn't work.

I didn't realize that different revisions might have something to do with compatibility. Looking at my two CT4830 boards, I see two date stamps on the reverse, upper-left: 3599 (35th week of 1999?) and 500 (5th week of 2000?).

In answer to the last part of your reply about what system this will go into . . . well, I'm doing it mostly because the Live! card and its million variations have really bugged me for the past several years, and I wanted to get some clarity.

The Live! CAN be such a great solution for a 98SE system without ISA slots. After loading up the E-MU 8MB soundfont in AudioHQ, I was impressed all over again by the quality of the wavetable. Tyrian sounds fantastic.

I'm thinking that the early model Live! cards pre-Windows XP and pre-WMA drivers would be excellent choices for EAX sound plus good SB16 compatibility with good wavetable. This is a dirt cheap solution for those wanting to get into retro gaming on PC.

But getting everything up and running can be a nightmare. So, I was hoping to have a thread where we could know for sure that an ISO would definitely work with a particular model, although that might not be possible without knowing about revisions.

Perhaps try running the "UPDDRV95.EXE" file in the \Win95drv folder I mentioned earlier?

jesolo wrote on 2020-04-13, 15:13:

Perhaps try running the "UPDDRV95.EXE" file in the \Win95drv folder I mentioned earlier?

In a roundabout way, I did that. I just received a retail boxed SB Live! 5.1 (SB0100), and the CD included an INF file that supposedly works with a CT4830 (just like the one you uploaded).

However, there's a file called UPDDRV98.EXE on this CD. I tried it with the CT4830 and the CD that came with the SB0100, but it didn't work--still no sound.

I guess it's possible that the UPDDRV95.EXE file and your CD would work, but I think it's more likely that a CT4830 just needs a different install CD.

boxpressed wrote on 2020-04-13, 17:42:

In a roundabout way, I did that. I just received a retail boxed SB Live! 5.1 (SB0100), and the CD included an INF file that supp […]
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jesolo wrote on 2020-04-13, 15:13:

Perhaps try running the "UPDDRV95.EXE" file in the \Win95drv folder I mentioned earlier?

In a roundabout way, I did that. I just received a retail boxed SB Live! 5.1 (SB0100), and the CD included an INF file that supposedly works with a CT4830 (just like the one you uploaded).

However, there's a file called UPDDRV98.EXE on this CD. I tried it with the CT4830 and the CD that came with the SB0100, but it didn't work--still no sound.

I guess it's possible that the UPDDRV95.EXE file and your CD would work, but I think it's more likely that a CT4830 just needs a different install CD.

This is quite strange, since the image I uploaded is the installation CD that came with my CT4830.
Maybe install the card in a different system (both 98 & perhaps XP)? Could perhaps be a motherboard (chipset) incompatibility.

Would you mind creating an image of the SB0100 installation CD and sharing it? I happen to have a SB0100 SB Live! as well, but no installation CD.

jesolo wrote on 2020-04-13, 19:18:

This is quite strange, since the image I uploaded is the installation CD that came with my CT4830.
Maybe install the card in a different system (both 98 & perhaps XP)? Could perhaps be a motherboard (chipset) incompatibility.

Would you mind creating an image of the SB0100 installation CD and sharing it? I happen to have a SB0100 SB Live! as well, but no installation CD.

Yes, I agree that it is very strange. Remember, I tried it on a 440BX-2 system and a KT133A system (both 98SE) with exactly the same results. My only explanation is that there are different revisions of each model that are associated with different product IDs.

I just uploaded the SB0100 CD to archive.org. Glad I can return the favor: https://archive.org/details/sbinstall_202004

boxpressed wrote on 2020-04-13, 20:56:

Yes, I agree that it is very strange. Remember, I tried it on a 440BX-2 system and a KT133A system (both 98SE) with exactly the same results. My only explanation is that there are different revisions of each model that are associated with different product IDs.

I just uploaded the SB0100 CD to archive.org. Glad I can return the favor: https://archive.org/details/sbinstall_202004

Perhaps try installing the two CT4380 cards in a Windows XP setup and see how the cards then behave? The Live Unified Driver Pack for XP should still be available on Creative's website.

Also, under Windows 98SE, does it install the WDM drivers? Is there an option under the Creative submenu to install the VXD drivers instead?

jesolo wrote on 2020-04-13, 22:41:

Perhaps try installing the two CT4380 cards in a Windows XP setup and see how the cards then behave? The Live Unified Driver Pack for XP should still be available on Creative's website.

Also, under Windows 98SE, does it install the WDM drivers? Is there an option under the Creative submenu to install the VXD drivers instead?

Yes, I'll try them in XP next, but once I get to that platform, I would skip the Live! in favor of Audigy.

I'm pretty sure it is installing the VXD drivers. The SB0100 CD install program gives you an option of selecting the VXD or WDM drivers during the install process but not your CT4830 CD install program.

boxpressed wrote on 2020-04-11, 19:01:

In the past, a 100% smooth install has happened only when I used a boxed retail version of a card with the CD that was packaged with it. I had retail CDs for CT4760 and SB0060 but sold the latter.

I'm glad you posted this - I was researching which I should use with my CT4760 I just got, and was disappointed when I read this post that even with the official drivers they STILL get BSOD w/ VXD errors on this exact CT4760 Live card!

Do you have the CD you used successfully with your CT4760 linked someplace please? Otherwise I was going to use this on on Vogon's drivers. I have an ESS ES1869F ISA sound card installed as well if that matters.

Dochartaigh wrote on 2020-04-14, 00:56:

boxpressed wrote on 2020-04-11, 19:01:

In the past, a 100% smooth install has happened only when I used a boxed retail version of a card with the CD that was packaged with it. I had retail CDs for CT4760 and SB0060 but sold the latter.

I'm glad you posted this - I was researching which I should use with my CT4760 I just got, and was disappointed when I read this post that even with the official drivers they STILL get BSOD w/ VXD errors on this exact CT4760 Live card!

Do you have the CD you used successfully with your CT4760 linked someplace please? Otherwise I was going to use this on on Vogon's drivers. I have an ESS ES1869F ISA sound card installed as well if that matters.

Yes, I'm convinced that just because a model is listed in one of the INF files on the CD, it doesn't mean that an installation will go smoothly. The only guaranteed solution is to have a retail version where you know for certain that the card and CD are a match. The next best thing is to do what we're doing in this thread and upload the CD ISOs that we know worked with OUR cards.

I've uploaded the CD that worked with my CT4760. It was from a retail "Sound Blaster Live! X-Gamer" edition of the card. Hope it works for you!

https://archive.org/details/sbinstall_20200414

boxpressed wrote on 2020-04-14, 01:23:

Yes, I'm convinced that just because a model is listed in one of the INF files on the CD, it doesn't mean that an installation will go smoothly. The only guaranteed solution is to have a retail version where you know for certain that the card and CD are a match. The next best thing is to do what we're doing in this thread and upload the CD ISOs that we know worked with OUR cards.

I've uploaded the CD that worked with my CT4760. It was from a retail "Sound Blaster Live! X-Gamer" edition of the card. Hope it works for you!

https://archive.org/details/sbinstall_20200414

Much appreciated - thank you.

Anything special I have to select (or not select if it tries to install a bunch of things I'll never need or use)?