Very little chance of BIOS upgrade doing anything. 500MB or 8GB was the typical limits of the era.
I use drive overlay to get around the limit on a 486 and its working well.
Phil's done a few videos, here is one.
https://youtu.be/8LzCB6kDVC8?si=b85ZzfVortFj2D3X

Or something like XTIDE would also work.

chinny22 wrote on 2024-09-13, 01:11:

Very little chance of BIOS upgrade doing anything. 500MB or 8GB was the typical limits of the era. I use drive overlay to get ar […]
Show full quote

Very little chance of BIOS upgrade doing anything. 500MB or 8GB was the typical limits of the era.
I use drive overlay to get around the limit on a 486 and its working well.
Phil's done a few videos, here is one.
https://youtu.be/8LzCB6kDVC8?si=b85ZzfVortFj2D3X

Or something like XTIDE would also work.

Could I manually enter the hard drive size? The BIOS allows me to enter the following:

Cyl (limited to 4 digits)
Hd
Pre (not sure what this is)
LZ (not sure what this is)
Sec

My 8GB drive has 15636 cylinders, 16 heads, and 63 sectors but since cylinders has a 4 digit limit I can't enter that.

No, its a hardware limit.

What your asking is basically how drive overlay works. it creates a small drive within the bios limit and software in that drive loads and loads its own HDD geometry

chinny22 wrote on 2024-09-13, 01:54:

No, its a hardware limit.

What your asking is basically how drive overlay works. it creates a small drive within the bios limit and software in that drive loads and loads its own HDD geometry

Is there a downside to using overlay software?

How about XTIDE? Will that bypass the limit? I tried it on my other 486 and fdisk still only saw 506Mb.

Tempest wrote on 2024-09-13, 02:18:

chinny22 wrote on 2024-09-13, 01:54:

No, its a hardware limit.

What your asking is basically how drive overlay works. it creates a small drive within the bios limit and software in that drive loads and loads its own HDD geometry

Is there a downside to using overlay software?

How about XTIDE? Will that bypass the limit? I tried it on my other 486 and fdisk still only saw 506Mb.

In theory you take a slight performance hit as the fix is in software.
but in my experience it's a free easy fix, and I haven't noticed any performance decrease.

XTIDE should also bypass the limit, as your no longer using the motherboard BIOS. Not sure why it didn't on your other PC.

My recommendation is try drive overlay first as it's free and you have nothing to lose.
if you don't like it or it doesn't work then invest the time and effort in setting and troubleshooting XTIDE

Tempest wrote on 2024-09-13, 00:25:

I was attempting to use an 8GB CF card with my Gateway 2000 4DX2-66V but the system only seems to recognize it as 504MB or so ha […]
Show full quote

I was attempting to use an 8GB CF card with my Gateway 2000 4DX2-66V but the system only seems to recognize it as 504MB or so hard drive. The BIOS is version 0.10 (Phoenix BIOS). Would updating the BIOS help overcome this limit or do I have to use something else like XTIDE BIOS?

I found one BIOS file but it's the same .10 one I have. Maybe this is the only one? https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/micron … 9-00189-xx#bios

Supposedly Micronics themselves had a different BIOS that might work better. Not sure where to get it though https://www.rigacci.org/docs/biblio/online/fi … are/mfibios.htm (M4HS45G 4.05.17)

The BIOS *did* allow me to manually set the hard drive size but it uses that cylinders/heads notation that I don't understand. Would this allow me to use the 8GB HD (or at least have it see it as 4GB)?

The latest version of the Phoenix BIOS should support drives upto 2GB...doesn't matter if you use the Gateway or Micronics package versions as they contain the same .BIN file...

Gateway

Micronics

To use the attached Micro Firmware update version mentioned, you need to already have a M4HS45G BIOS installed on your motherboard

I have a couple Gateway 2000 486dx-33 computers and I hate that Micronics motherboard bios.
Anyways I put a CF card in my other 486dx-100 computer and it performs really good running Dos 6.22 and Win3.11
So you are doing the right thing using a CF card
It will greatly improve the performance of your 486 computer.
My 486 is very reliable now and never crashes or hangs.
If you are using a VLB card don’t bother with the VLB card driver as these usually have a 410mb hard drive limitation too.
Just install the drive overlay software onto the CF card.

Motherboard manual link:
https://stason.org/TULARC/pc/motherboards/M/M … 30G-VL-BUS.html

I think there is a MR BIOS for the jx30g, but I don’t recall if we have a copy. If you can find it, that would be the way to go.

PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2024-09-13, 07:31:

The latest version of the Phoenix BIOS should support drives upto 2GB...doesn't matter if you use the Gateway or Micronics packa […]
Show full quote

Tempest wrote on 2024-09-13, 00:25:

I was attempting to use an 8GB CF card with my Gateway 2000 4DX2-66V but the system only seems to recognize it as 504MB or so ha […]
Show full quote

I was attempting to use an 8GB CF card with my Gateway 2000 4DX2-66V but the system only seems to recognize it as 504MB or so hard drive. The BIOS is version 0.10 (Phoenix BIOS). Would updating the BIOS help overcome this limit or do I have to use something else like XTIDE BIOS?

I found one BIOS file but it's the same .10 one I have. Maybe this is the only one? https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/micron … 9-00189-xx#bios

Supposedly Micronics themselves had a different BIOS that might work better. Not sure where to get it though https://www.rigacci.org/docs/biblio/online/fi … are/mfibios.htm (M4HS45G 4.05.17)

The BIOS *did* allow me to manually set the hard drive size but it uses that cylinders/heads notation that I don't understand. Would this allow me to use the 8GB HD (or at least have it see it as 4GB)?

The latest version of the Phoenix BIOS should support drives upto 2GB...doesn't matter if you use the Gateway or Micronics package versions as they contain the same .BIN file...

Gateway

The attachment jx3012.exe is no longer available

Micronics

The attachment jx30g-12.exe is no longer available

To use the attached Micro Firmware update version mentioned, you need to already have a M4HS45G BIOS installed on your motherboard

The attachment m4hs45gu.exe is no longer available

How do you run these? Do you make a boot disk and run it from there?

Tempest wrote on 2024-09-13, 13:16:

PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2024-09-13, 07:31:

The latest version of the Phoenix BIOS should support drives upto 2GB...doesn't matter if you use the Gateway or Micronics packa […]
Show full quote

Tempest wrote on 2024-09-13, 00:25:

I was attempting to use an 8GB CF card with my Gateway 2000 4DX2-66V but the system only seems to recognize it as 504MB or so ha […]
Show full quote

I was attempting to use an 8GB CF card with my Gateway 2000 4DX2-66V but the system only seems to recognize it as 504MB or so hard drive. The BIOS is version 0.10 (Phoenix BIOS). Would updating the BIOS help overcome this limit or do I have to use something else like XTIDE BIOS?

I found one BIOS file but it's the same .10 one I have. Maybe this is the only one? https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/micron … 9-00189-xx#bios

Supposedly Micronics themselves had a different BIOS that might work better. Not sure where to get it though https://www.rigacci.org/docs/biblio/online/fi … are/mfibios.htm (M4HS45G 4.05.17)

The BIOS *did* allow me to manually set the hard drive size but it uses that cylinders/heads notation that I don't understand. Would this allow me to use the 8GB HD (or at least have it see it as 4GB)?

The latest version of the Phoenix BIOS should support drives upto 2GB...doesn't matter if you use the Gateway or Micronics package versions as they contain the same .BIN file...

Gateway

The attachment jx3012.exe is no longer available

Micronics

The attachment jx30g-12.exe is no longer available

To use the attached Micro Firmware update version mentioned, you need to already have a M4HS45G BIOS installed on your motherboard

The attachment m4hs45gu.exe is no longer available

How do you run these? Do you make a boot disk and run it from there?

Just run, say, jx3012.exe (might take a drive letter parameter , so maybe jx3012.exe a:) and so long as these 4 files end up on a bootable floppy disk...

fsh20f.exe flash ultility program
jx30g-12.bin binary file that contains the BIOS code necessary for the upgrade
read1st.txt this file
autoexec.bat runs the flash update automatically

...and reboot the system with this disk.

PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2024-09-13, 13:39:

Just run, say, jx3012.exe (might take a drive letter parameter , so maybe jx3012.exe a:) and so long as these 4 files end up on […]
Show full quote

Tempest wrote on 2024-09-13, 13:16:

PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2024-09-13, 07:31:

The latest version of the Phoenix BIOS should support drives upto 2GB...doesn't matter if you use the Gateway or Micronics packa […]
Show full quote

The latest version of the Phoenix BIOS should support drives upto 2GB...doesn't matter if you use the Gateway or Micronics package versions as they contain the same .BIN file...

Gateway

The attachment jx3012.exe is no longer available

Micronics

The attachment jx30g-12.exe is no longer available

To use the attached Micro Firmware update version mentioned, you need to already have a M4HS45G BIOS installed on your motherboard

The attachment m4hs45gu.exe is no longer available

How do you run these? Do you make a boot disk and run it from there?

Just run, say, jx3012.exe (might take a drive letter parameter , so maybe jx3012.exe a:) and so long as these 4 files end up on a bootable floppy disk...

fsh20f.exe flash ultility program
jx30g-12.bin binary file that contains the BIOS code necessary for the upgrade
read1st.txt this file
autoexec.bat runs the flash update automatically

...and reboot the system with this disk.

Well I updated and the BIOS does seem to recognize my 8GB card now (BIOS says the hard drive is 8000MB or so). The problem is that the system seems to hang whenever a larger than 506MB drive is attached. When booting the DOS 6.22 install disk it says "Starting MS-DOS" then just sits there forever. I tried a few different scenarios based on what I had laying around:

1. 8GB CF Card - System hangs when booting the MS-DOS disk
2. 512MB CF Card - System hangs when booting the MS-DOS disk
3. 32MB CF Card - Disk boots and I can install DOS on it. However the CF won't boot afterwards. I just get a ; and it hangs

I thought that maybe the problem was the CF adapter (Startech) so I took it out and tried some IDE drives

4. 1.7 GB IDE drive - System hangs when booting the MS-DOS disk
5. 20GB IDE drive - System hangs when booting the MS-DOS disk

Not sure what to do now. With the old BIOS at least it recognized the 8GB as a 506MB drive, now I can't get it to work with anything. Should I try and downgrade the BIOS? I'm really at a loss on what to do here.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2024-09-13, 10:03:

I have a couple Gateway 2000 486dx-33 computers and I hate that Micronics motherboard bios. Anyways I put a CF card in my other […]
Show full quote

I have a couple Gateway 2000 486dx-33 computers and I hate that Micronics motherboard bios.
Anyways I put a CF card in my other 486dx-100 computer and it performs really good running Dos 6.22 and Win3.11
So you are doing the right thing using a CF card
It will greatly improve the performance of your 486 computer.
My 486 is very reliable now and never crashes or hangs.

What size and brand CF did you use? I can't seem to get anything to actually boot (see my post above).

Tempest wrote on 2024-09-13, 17:45:

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2024-09-13, 10:03:

I have a couple Gateway 2000 486dx-33 computers and I hate that Micronics motherboard bios. Anyways I put a CF card in my other […]
Show full quote

I have a couple Gateway 2000 486dx-33 computers and I hate that Micronics motherboard bios.
Anyways I put a CF card in my other 486dx-100 computer and it performs really good running Dos 6.22 and Win3.11
So you are doing the right thing using a CF card
It will greatly improve the performance of your 486 computer.
My 486 is very reliable now and never crashes or hangs.

What size and brand CF did you use? I can't seem to get anything to actually boot (see my post above).

I did not put a CF card in the gateway.
I could hardly get these to work with original hardware.
It does not surprise me you are having trouble with these Micronics motherboard bios.
But I would make sure you have a good cmos battery in the computer because this could cause allot of problems too.
Fdisk /mbr the CF card.
These is also a utility to prepare the CF card but I forget what its called.
LGR made a video about it when putting a CF card into his 486 computer.
Check on YouTube LGR channel

LGR Video link:
https://youtu.be/VWfTgga7rmA?si=b58jZmi_dLPUPPW2

Download ClearHDD.exe utility to prep your CF card.
Re: Compact flash recommendation needed please

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2024-09-13, 18:58:

I did not put a CF card in the gateway. I could hardly get these to work with original hardware. It does not surprise me you are […]
Show full quote

Tempest wrote on 2024-09-13, 17:45:

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2024-09-13, 10:03:

I have a couple Gateway 2000 486dx-33 computers and I hate that Micronics motherboard bios. Anyways I put a CF card in my other […]
Show full quote

I have a couple Gateway 2000 486dx-33 computers and I hate that Micronics motherboard bios.
Anyways I put a CF card in my other 486dx-100 computer and it performs really good running Dos 6.22 and Win3.11
So you are doing the right thing using a CF card
It will greatly improve the performance of your 486 computer.
My 486 is very reliable now and never crashes or hangs.

What size and brand CF did you use? I can't seem to get anything to actually boot (see my post above).

I did not put a CF card in the gateway.
I could hardly get these to work with original hardware.
It does not surprise me you are having trouble with these Micronics motherboard bios.
But I would make sure you have a good cmos battery in the computer because this could cause allot of problems too.
Fdisk /mbr the CF card.
These is also a utility to prepare the CF card but I forget what its called.
LGR made a video about it when putting a CF card into his 486 computer.
Check on YouTube LGR channel

It could be the CMOS battery, I haven't replaced it yet but it is keeping the time/date still. I have a replacement battery holder thing coming today, maybe that will fix things?

Well I got a little further. I replaced my CMOS battery, but that didn't seem to change anything. Still, good to know my CMOS battery is fresh now.

The BIOS correctly detects the 8GB size of my CF card. I got around the MS-DOS disk not booting by changing the setting from Auto Detect to User Configured but leaving everything the same (not sure why that mattered). DOS booted, but FDISK said the total drive size was 137MB. I tried a few different things but nothing seemed to work. Then suddenly on one try FDISK saw the full 8GB. I was able to make a 2GB primary partition and a 6GB extended partition with three separate drives on that. I formatted everything, installed DOS, and thought it was all good. The system wouldn't boot from the CF card, it just hung. I tried booting from the DOS disk again and FDISK was back to saying the drive was 137MB.

What would cause this erratic size detections? Is it a bad CF card or something with the computer itself? FWIW the BIOS has been correctly detecting the size of the CF card this whole time since I updated it. Interestingly the update seems to have stolen some of my RAM as instead of 16MB I'm showing 15.something MB now.

I'm using a StarTech CF adapter.

Hi,
did You try fdisk /mbr first?
To erase master boot record from this disk (or card)....
If not, try first this command, and than fdisk to make partitions...

butjer1010 wrote on 2024-09-14, 20:35:

Hi, did You try fdisk /mbr first? To erase master boot record from this disk (or card).... If not, try first this command, and t […]
Show full quote

Hi,
did You try fdisk /mbr first?
To erase master boot record from this disk (or card)....
If not, try first this command, and than fdisk to make partitions...

Yes I did. No change.

I guess I'll try a real hard drive and see if I get the same results. If so I can rule out the cf card and adapter.

I did some testing with the real HDDs I have laying around. Unfortunately I don't have any really small drives anymore. My smallest is a 10GB maxtor which my BIOS detected as 8GB (the max it will go) and FDISK said was 250MB or something like that. When I tried installing DOS on it it wouldn't boot afterwards (I forget the error, I think it hung). I have another 10GB drive that I used with a different computer that already was partitioned and had DOS on it so I tried that and got 'No Operating System Found'. I tried a WD drive (200GB I think) and the system wouldn't even boot with that, eventually it gave me a Hard Drive Controller Error. Finally I tried my Maxtor Diamond 300GB drive and FDISK said it was 504MB. Just for fun I installed DOS on it and it actually booted. Of course it still thinks the drive is only 504 MB, but this is the first time I've actually gotten something to boot after installing that new BIOS.

So what can we learn from this? I don't think the issue was my CF adapter. Although I did try a 32MB and a 256MB card in it and neither booted after installing DOS (the 256MB one hung and the 32MB one hung and gave me a ; character). It seems that while the BIOS will detect any large drive as 8GB, FDISK has other ideas. As i said before, I did get FDISK to see the 8GB CF correctly once (no idea why) but once I rebooted it went back to seeing it as 250MB or so. Any ideas on what I can do? Using my ultra quiet 300GB Maxtor Diamond as a 500MB drive seems like a waste but as I said, it seems to be the first one that actually worked. It also has a Limit Cap jumper on it (not enabled) which I'm curious as to what it does.

Another thing I noticed is that while the BIOS updated the Phoenix setup utility is still at 1.0. Is this a separate update?

I had similar problem many times, i guess we all had. Maybe You could try the thing i did when i was desperate. I have connected 2GB CF card to "newer" pentium I system, and wrote the configuration data of CF in BIOS (heads, cylinders,....) - Normal, Large and LBA data. Than i tried to set HDD user settings on older 286 PC, and actually i managed to solve same problem (not booting to DOS). Of Course, I always did FDISK /MBR between trying other settings.... If You have those smaller CF cards, maybe You could try....
Good Luck