Hi, not sure if I can help, but..

Yes, Super VGA is possible on Windows 3.1 in a 286 PC running in Standard Mode.
However, it is up to the driver to support a 286.
Or more precisely, use normal 16-Bit *.drv files instead of *.386 files (old type VXDs).
The default 800 by 600 pixel driver requires a 386 and Enhanced Mode.
Some early SVGA cards had 16-Bit compatible drivers which worked in Real-Mode even, on Windows 2.x or 3.0.
Such as the Paradise Professional VGA (PVGA, WDC90cxx series)..

Standard Mode is an operation mode of the Windows kernal.
True Standard Mode uses krnl286.exe and the original Protected Mode that was introduced with the 80286 CPU..
(On a 386+ PC, krnl386.exe is used. )
Nowadays, we call it 16-Bit Protected Mode.
On a 286, it theoretical has an virtual address space of 1GB, but Windows 3.1 doesn't use it (OS/2 version 1.x did) .

Edit: In theory, it would be possible to use a generic Windows VESA VBE driver on a 286, if it existed, and use the VBE BIOS..
Maybe the retro community can assemble something like this in the future. The Windows 3.1x SDK has sample code for this, if memory serves.

Alternatively, you can make your 286 more compatible by loading EMU386.
It emulates certain 32-Bit instructions of the 386..
However, it depends on the software whether it works or not.
It helped me to run some games, however, so it is no vaporware.
Re: Timeline of MS-DOS for NEC PC98 and more

Last, but not least, some MakeIt! 486 upgrade chips could be used to make tbibgs more compatible.

First, there's no "286 real-mode" in Windows 3.1.
Windows 3.1 on a 286 can only work in Standard mode, ie. protected.

Second, there was some talk about using accelerated cards in Windows on a 286, and I think the only driver known to work is that for IBM 8514/A.
So, forget about CL-GD5426, and either use some early non-accelerated SVGA, or some 8514/A clone like ATI Mach8/Mach32.

OK Grzyb, yes, I know there's no 286-specific mode for Win 3.1. I believe I called it "Win3.1 in real mode" but yes I was referring to standard mode. I do like your suggestion of the Mach8/32. Those were some of the cards I looked at as alternatives.

Jo22, I did try EMU386 but it didn't help in this case. If I look at the drivers for the Speedstar Pro, I see both types of files. For instance, the Win3.1 driver version 1.10b contains four .DRV files and one .386 file.

Perhaps based on what Grzyb says I'd need to find something with a driver that contains no .386 files at all. Problem is the ATI Mach8 Win3.1 driver contains a .386 file too, so maybe not.

I'm not sure I'd want to go as far as upgrading this to a 486 machine, although if someone had one of those Makeit 486 upgrades to sell I'd probably try to buy it out of curiosity. I am, however, interested in a 386 upgrade. If I get that to work, this could all become moot - and it would certainly make a lot of other things more convenient to work with too.

AngieAndretti wrote on 2020-12-01, 00:30:

I guess Grzyb is suggesting I'd need to find something that contains no .386 files at all.

No.
.386 drivers are only loaded in Enhanced mode, therefore they can't affect Windows running on a 286.
You need to find something that doesn't contain 386+ instructions in files other than .386 .

Another item of note is that he mentions the 8514/A being real-mode compatible

Again, not real-mode!
The last Windows version with Real mode support is 3.0, in Windows 3.1 there's Standard mode and Enhanced mode.
Real and Standard are completely different things.

the SpeedStar Pro DOS drivers actually come with an 8514/A emulator, a TSR iirc, and that's another thing I tried - running that emulator in combination with the 8514/A drivers that come with Win3.1, but that didn't work either.

Which drivers?
I guess you have found some TSR to provide 8514/AI (Adapter Interface) API, but I didn't know there was such a thing for Cirrus chips.
Anyway, it can't work with Windows, as Windows drivers access the hardware directly, not via the AI.

I am, however, interested in a 386 upgrade. If I get that to work, this could all become moot - and it would certainly make a lot of other things more convenient to work with too.

Well, if you find a 286 inconvenient, you can easily sell it and purchase some 386...

Grzyb wrote on 2020-11-29, 16:09:

Second, there was some talk about using accelerated cards in Windows on a 286, and I think the only driver known to work is that for IBM 8514/A.
So, forget about CL-GD5426, and either use some early non-accelerated SVGA, or some 8514/A clone like ATI Mach8/Mach32.

Well, the only accelerator series that I know of which could *work* is the WDC90c-something series.
It's backwards compatible to the old PVGA1A/1B series. At the core, at least.
I've successfully run some of the old Windows 2.03 drivers in conjunction with a WD90C00 and WDC90C21/31 chip (on Win 2.03 and 3.0 in Real-Mode).
This gave me 640x400 in 256c, which was not too shabby by late 1980s standards.
Unaccelerated, of course.
800x600 in 16c was another option, but that's not any better than the default Super VGA driver of Windows 3.1.
If it only could work on a 286..

Edit: Another driver to try to is the paletizzed VGA driver from Windows 3.0 MME.
It's in 16c only, but can do palette cycling.
Ifaik, it does work in Standard Mode, too.
Re: VGA games with only 16 colors

Sorry Grzyb. I was thinking real-mode and standard mode were synonyms but you're right. I had forgotten that. So you're confident the ATI Mach8 would work in standard mode?

Lol, I guess I am finding 286 "inconvenient." Some of that's to be expected, as I'm at-home with any 386+ architecture but this is all new! I knew going into this that Win3.1 wouldn't run in 386-enhanced mode but I thought that just meant no DOS-VM multitasking (no big deal.) I never considered that I'd limit my ability to get a high-color desktop with these various cards, and I forgot about how different the memory management would be (EMS, page frame address selection, ugh!) No emm386 here! I believe I can get EMS working, given time, but my first attempt ended with the BocaRAM EMS driver not being able to find any contiguous 64k sections available to create its page frame. XMS works just fine, but I cannot load devices high. I haven't run into a program yet that needs more conventional memory, but loading high is still a goal - especially as I experiment with more accessories which means more drivers to load. For instance I have an external "Backpack" CD-ROM drive which I'm excited to see if I can get working once my serial/parallel card arrives.

Yes the practical thing would be to sell the 5170 and pick up any number of 386 machines but emotions aren't always practical and collecting is very emotion-bound for me. I really like the look and feel - and sounds - of the 5170, the clunky IBM setup disk instead of a "normal" BIOS, the MFM hard drive, etc. It all looked so tantalizing when LGR got his N.O.S. 5170 a couple years ago and I've wanted one ever since. I could swap a 386 mobo into the 5170, but that doesn't feel right either. Feels like a nasty thing to do to such a beautiful antique piece of tech. I am, however, willing to try a "SnapIn 386" daughterboard which takes the place of the original 286 chip. This thing already came with something similar for its 287 math copro. It's actually something I'd never heard of, called a "MicroWay 287Turbo," and it has one of the main power leads from the PSU shunted through it directly before continuing on to the motherboard! I think I can live with a 386 upgrade daughterboard and it'll still "feel like" a 5170 - but if not (or if it doesn't work for some reason) I will pick up a Mach8 because I really want 800x600, preferably in high-color but 256 colors at the very least! I assume the Mach8 would be the recommendation for that goal.

Oh, and regarding that compatibility TSR, I looked for it again last night but didn't find it yet. I clearly recall it existing but I tried so very many drivers that day, and I deleted a lot of them. It may have been one of the drivers listed by the CL-GD5426 chipset because I believe I've already searched through all the ones I'd downloaded labelled Speedstar Pro. I'll let you know if I find it again. And thanks for the help!

Can I see a picture of the Microway 287Turbo? I've been trying to track one of these down.

CL GD5426 is probably too late to get working in standard mode. That chipset came out in 1993 didn't it? It has VLB interface support.

I really need to check out that 16 colour driver with the palette cycling. I suppose the palette is 16 colours? Any chance to adapt it to EGA 640x350?

AngieAndretti wrote on 2020-12-01, 11:47:

So you're confident the ATI Mach8 would work in standard mode?

It doesn't matter if it works in Standard mode - some drivers may work in Standard mode on a 386, but not on a 286.
Anyway, I haven't tried it myself, but saw some reports of it working on a 286 - it's important to use the 8514/A drivers provided with Windows, NOT the native Mach8 drivers from ATI.

I will pick up a Mach8 because I really want 800x600, preferably in high-color but 256 colors at the very least! I assume the Mach8 would be the recommendation for that goal.

You can only have 1024x768x256.
Mach8 doesn't support HiColor.
It does support 800x600, but for this you would need the native drivers, as 8514/A only supports 640x480 and 1024x768 - and nothing in between.

Also, if all you want is 800x600x256, then there's more choices, eg. Video Seven:

8514/A-compatible cards, however, provide more than that - they also provide hardware acceleration, a very nice feature to have for running a GUI on a slow CPU.

I've owned a Graphics Ultra (mach8) for many years, and I have used this card in 286s in the past (without make it 486 type upgrades). I really don't recall having issues getting the drivers going in standard mode. But then again, it's been over two decades since I tried. Are you certain that all versions of the driver require a 386? An earlier driver version that predates flexdesk might do the trick.

Anonymous Coward wrote on 2020-12-01, 15:45:

I've owned a Graphics Ultra (mach8) for many years, and I have used this card in 286s in the past (without make it 486 type upgrades). I really don't recall having issues getting the drivers going in standard mode. But then again, it's been over two decades since I tried. Are you certain that all versions of the driver require a 386? An earlier driver version that predates flexdesk might do the trick.

Hopefully you have the early drivers?
I have recently experimented with a Mach8, and found two versions of Windows drivers:

July 26, 1994
"The new driver does not support 16 color (4bpp) mode. Incorporating 16 color mode into the driver would seriously affect performance. This mode was also found to be incompatible with most of the software applications that are currently being released."
"The new driver operates in 256 color mode at 640x480, 800x600 and 1024x768 resolutions in Windows 386 enhanced mode only."

May 7, 1993
"The mach8 FlexDesk Windows Driver is an enhanced mode driver that will work only on 80386 and 80486 based systems."
"Both 16 and 256 color modes are supported in resolutions of 640x480, 800x600 and 1024x768. 1280x1024 support is provided in 16 colors only."
"FlexDesk will only work with Windows in 386 Enhanced Mode. To use the mach8 on a 286 based processor, or in Windows Standard Mode, use the supplied Microsoft 8514/A driver."

I do indeed have earlier drivers, on the original floppy disks...but I don't have access to them at the moment (they're in another city). My drivers are likely from mid 1992. I would think even earlier ones exist, as the mach8 was a 1991 product.

I remember there being performance issues with some of the later drivers. They were supposed to be faster, yet somehow slower.

ISA-16Bit VGA Win 3.0 + Win 3.1 Drivers for 286!

Maybe the old VideoSeven card has Windows 3.0 drivers, also.
These should (could) work in Windows 3.1, too.

640x400@256c is possible with as little as 256KB.

Here are a couple shots of the MicroWay 287Turbo.

Good news:
I got that SnapIn 386 board I mentioned! I've gotten it working and I have UMB's configured with EMM386 for loading drivers high, so plenty of conventional memory now!
I reinstalled Win 3.1 in 386 Enhanced Mode and the video drivers that didn't load before do load now!

Bad news:
With the Windows screen modes I'm interested in, text appears fine but icons and graphical items appear corrupted for some reason. The corruption builds if I interact with Windows, as more interlaced garbage gets deposited onto the screen where it doesn't belong.
640x480x16 colors works fine.
640x480x16 million colors also works fine, but it operates very slowly.
640x480 or 800x600 or 1024x768 x either 256 or 64k colors exhibit the problem described.

So far I've tried three drivers: Speedstar Pro Win3.1 drivers versions 1.09 and 1.10b and CL-GD542x Win3.1 drivers version 1.50. Results are identical across the board. Any thoughts/suggestions?

That 287Turbo module is pretty insane. I have a 287 upgrade module of some sort which allows the FPU to run async to the CPU, but it's very compact and simple...nothing at all like this monstrosity. Why on earth does it require so much power? Were they afraid that the original AT motherboard couldn't handle a 10MHz NMOS 287? Where does that two lead cable go?

Anonymous Coward wrote on 2020-12-02, 01:08:

Where does that two lead cable go?

If you're speaking of the grey wire, it goes to a momentary push-button switch that's mounted into the back wall of the case. It's just labelled "switch" on the 287 PCB, but it seems to function as a system reset switch - at least that's what happens if I press it. It acts just like pressing CTRL+ALT+DEL, but still works even if the system is hung at such a low level that CTRL+ALT+DEL does nothing - which is handy because it allows the system to skip the LONG memory count that would occur with a full power-cycle.

Success with the Speedstar Pro graphics card in Windows!

The driver called "JWIN2224.ZIP" here: http://ftp.mpoli.fi/pub/hardware/DISPLAY/CIRRUS/ works! Description is "CL-GD5422/CL-GD5424 JWindows Display Drivers Version 1.41" but it works for my CL-GD5426 without screen corruption at 800x600x64k colors! Looks like "JWindows" refers to Japanese language (there were some unreadable characters in the driver description within Windows, but a quick edit to the .INF file fixed that.)

I doubt this is the best driver out there for my card - and I still don't understand why the drivers I've tried for my actual graphics chipset/card cause image corruption - but I'm very happy to be going to sleep tonight with everything I was shooting for WORKING on my 5170! I'll post again if I find a superior driver later on.

You should upgrade your AT to MR-BIOS. It's a lot better than either the IBM BIOS or the AMI replacement BIOS...though either will take care of your memory count problem.

The Quadtel BIOS also seems to be compatible with the 5170 mainboard. :)

Edit: You may also like to check out the VGA cards by OAK.
The OTI067 or so might have Windows 3.x drivers that work on a 286.
Unaccelerated, of course. Anyway, it was just an idea. 😅