VOGONS


First post, by britain4

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Pretty much as the title says - I’ve got a socket 7 board that won’t post. It’s an ASUS SPAX which I believe is an OEM board but may have a retail equivalent.

I’ve tried a known good 100mhz Pentium in there, 2 different sticks of RAM in both slots, reseated the BIOS chip, cleared the CMOS, it’s just not having it, no POST, no beeps. FSB is set properly as is CPU voltage. No visible bad caps - Rubycon ones on the board.

It’s got onboard video and 2 jumpers for it that are labelled “Disable INT VGA” and “Enable VGA INTA” - pretty clear what the first one does so obviously I’ve got it set to Enabled but couldn’t figure out the second.

Any ideas where to progress with this or does it sound broken? Should I bother trying to recap it or is that an unlikely cause?

I’m testing it outside the case with nothing connected but the VGA and ATX power cable.

- 486DX2-66, SoundBlaster 16, Crystal VLB graphics
- P-MMX 200MHZ, PCChips M598LMR, Voodoo 1, AD1816
- PIII 933MHz, MSI MS6119, Voodoo3 3000, SB Live!
- PIII 1400MHz, ECS P6IPAT, Voodoo5 5500, SB Audigy

Reply 1 of 13, by dionb

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You've reseated the BIOS chip. Have you tried re-flashing it (on a different board or EEPROM flasher if you have one)?

As for re-capping, how do the caps look? Asus tended to use better caps than most around 1998 when this board was made, but that's no guarantee of course.

Reply 2 of 13, by britain4

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dionb wrote:

You've reseated the BIOS chip. Have you tried re-flashing it (on a different board or EEPROM flasher if you have one)?

As for re-capping, how do the caps look? Asus tended to use better caps than most around 1998 when this board was made, but that's no guarantee of course.

Nope I haven’t tried reflashing it... I wouldn’t know which BIOS image to use, with it being an OEM board, I don’t think there are any floating about.

None of the caps have any visible damage at all and they’re all Rubycon items which should be of decent quality but the boards certainly aren’t getting any younger now

- 486DX2-66, SoundBlaster 16, Crystal VLB graphics
- P-MMX 200MHZ, PCChips M598LMR, Voodoo 1, AD1816
- PIII 933MHz, MSI MS6119, Voodoo3 3000, SB Live!
- PIII 1400MHz, ECS P6IPAT, Voodoo5 5500, SB Audigy

Reply 3 of 13, by dionb

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Asus' SPAX was an OEM board for HP, used in the HP Pavilion 6350 and others. This should be the BIOS:
https://d2.driverscollection.com/-44758081929 … 513/puma110.exe

I dl'ed it and extracted the files - looks like bona fide BIOS image with no nastyware.

Reply 4 of 13, by britain4

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dionb wrote:

Asus' SPAX was an OEM board for HP, used in the HP Pavilion 6350 and others. This should be the BIOS:
https://d2.driverscollection.com/-44758081929 … 513/puma110.exe

I dl'ed it and extracted the files - looks like bona fide BIOS image with no nastyware.

Wow thanks!! I searched but I couldn’t find that.

I don’t have an EEPROM flasher, how would I go about using a different board to flash the chip? I would buy a flasher for it if you think the BIOS is a likely cause?

- 486DX2-66, SoundBlaster 16, Crystal VLB graphics
- P-MMX 200MHZ, PCChips M598LMR, Voodoo 1, AD1816
- PIII 933MHz, MSI MS6119, Voodoo3 3000, SB Live!
- PIII 1400MHz, ECS P6IPAT, Voodoo5 5500, SB Audigy

Reply 5 of 13, by .legaCy

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britain4 wrote:
dionb wrote:

Asus' SPAX was an OEM board for HP, used in the HP Pavilion 6350 and others. This should be the BIOS:
https://d2.driverscollection.com/-44758081929 … 513/puma110.exe

I dl'ed it and extracted the files - looks like bona fide BIOS image with no nastyware.

Wow thanks!! I searched but I couldn’t find that.

I don’t have an EEPROM flasher, how would I go about using a different board to flash the chip? I would buy a flasher for it if you think the BIOS is a likely cause?

I really strongly recommend getting and eeprom flasher, it is way easier and safer, i never managed to flash bios chips by hotswapping, with the one time exception when i used two a7v8x-x , it was two identical mobos so i booted the good one and replaced the good bios chip with a bad and reflashed

Reply 6 of 13, by dionb

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Hot flashing isn't so bad, but you need to know what you're doing.

Prerequesites:
- a board that works, works with Uniflash (1.40) and physically and logically fits the EEPROM chip you want to flash.
- a spare EEPROM of the correct size (until you're sure the BIOS is the problem and you have a working one, you don't want to risk destroying the original one)
- an absolutely minimal DOS system to boot into, just MSDOS.SYS, IO.SYS, COMMAND.COM, UNIFLASH.EXE and the image you want to flash is enough - and make sure it's on a reliable medium (not a floppy).
- some way of getting the EEPROM off the board. You have special extraction tools, but a sturdy knife or similar can suffice.

The only tricky bit is finding a board that will happily hot flash. In my experience, post 1998 Asus and MSI boards don't like to, but most low-end boards (PC Chips & co) do it fine, and so do Tyans. I used a Tyan Tsunami ATX S1846 for the last few BIOSs I needed to do.

Preparation:
- with the working board powered down, remove its BIOS EEPROM and very gently pat it into place in the socket. CHECK ORIENTATION WHEN YOU DO THIS. The idea is it can be removed with minimal effort and risk after booting.

Then the actual work:
- boot the board with its own BIOS.
- when you have a DOS prompt, remove the board's own BIOS and gently pat the new EEPROM into place. CHECK ORIENTATION WHEN YOU DO THIS.
- uniflash -e FILENAME.BIN
- power down the system, remove the new EEPROM and put it in its recipient board. CHECK ORENTATION WHEN YOU DO THIS.
- replace the original BIOS EEPROM in the flashing board. CHECK ORIENTATION WHEN YOU DO THIS.

That's all there is to it. All that can go wrong is short-circuiting something, potentially frying the hardware or yourself (although to do so with max 12V is challenging). Or putting the EEPROM in the wrong way. I emphasize that because in 15-odd years of hot flashing the only way I ever killed a board was putting the EEPROM in the wrong way round. When it was powered down, not even when it was on. It just caused a lot of magic smoke to escape when it was later turned on...

Given that (n=1) I feel that risk much greater than the rest of the hot flash procedure, I'm not so concerned about the difference between hot flashing and using an EEPROM programmer. You won't short anything with a running board with the latter, but you can just as easily fry it all if you put it in the wrong way round.

Reply 7 of 13, by .legaCy

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dionb wrote:
Hot flashing isn't so bad, but you need to know what you're doing. […]
Show full quote

Hot flashing isn't so bad, but you need to know what you're doing.

Prerequesites:
- a board that works, works with Uniflash (1.40) and physically and logically fits the EEPROM chip you want to flash.
- a spare EEPROM of the correct size (until you're sure the BIOS is the problem and you have a working one, you don't want to risk destroying the original one)
- an absolutely minimal DOS system to boot into, just MSDOS.SYS, IO.SYS, COMMAND.COM, UNIFLASH.EXE and the image you want to flash is enough - and make sure it's on a reliable medium (not a floppy).
- some way of getting the EEPROM off the board. You have special extraction tools, but a sturdy knife or similar can suffice.

The only tricky bit is finding a board that will happily hot flash. In my experience, post 1998 Asus and MSI boards don't like to, but most low-end boards (PC Chips & co) do it fine, and so do Tyans. I used a Tyan Tsunami ATX S1846 for the last few BIOSs I needed to do.

Preparation:
- with the working board powered down, remove its BIOS EEPROM and very gently pat it into place in the socket. CHECK ORIENTATION WHEN YOU DO THIS. The idea is it can be removed with minimal effort and risk after booting.

Then the actual work:
- boot the board with its own BIOS.
- when you have a DOS prompt, remove the board's own BIOS and gently pat the new EEPROM into place. CHECK ORIENTATION WHEN YOU DO THIS.
- uniflash -e FILENAME.BIN
- power down the system, remove the new EEPROM and put it in its recipient board. CHECK ORENTATION WHEN YOU DO THIS.
- replace the original BIOS EEPROM in the flashing board. CHECK ORIENTATION WHEN YOU DO THIS.

That's all there is to it. All that can go wrong is short-circuiting something, potentially frying the hardware or yourself (although to do so with max 12V is challenging). Or putting the EEPROM in the wrong way. I emphasize that because in 15-odd years of hot flashing the only way I ever killed a board was putting the EEPROM in the wrong way round. When it was powered down, not even when it was on. It just caused a lot of magic smoke to escape when it was later turned on...

Given that (n=1) I feel that risk much greater than the rest of the hot flash procedure, I'm not so concerned about the difference between hot flashing and using an EEPROM programmer. You won't short anything with a running board with the latter, but you can just as easily fry it all if you put it in the wrong way round.

But there is the factor that maybe it is easier to get the programmer than another board that will work with uniflash.

Reply 8 of 13, by dionb

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Possibly, but boards that do work are more common than those that don't, so if you have lots of motherboards lying around, the chances are very good several will do the trick - at no added expense and without having to wait for delivery. Fully agreed though that if you do a lot of this stuff a programmer is a good idea - but not something TS has access to now.

Reply 9 of 13, by britain4

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Thank you so much for the info! Super helpful. I managed to get a successful flash using another board. Unfortunately the S7 board still won’t boot 😒

There is a faint crackling noise coming from the speaker after the board has been on a few seconds but I don’t know if that’s relevant or not

Should I try recapping it even though there’s no visible damage to any of the caps?

I’d like to get it working but can’t afford to spend too much time chasing faults if it’s just dead 😒

- 486DX2-66, SoundBlaster 16, Crystal VLB graphics
- P-MMX 200MHZ, PCChips M598LMR, Voodoo 1, AD1816
- PIII 933MHz, MSI MS6119, Voodoo3 3000, SB Live!
- PIII 1400MHz, ECS P6IPAT, Voodoo5 5500, SB Audigy

Reply 10 of 13, by britain4

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Some success with this today!

After re-flashing the BIOS I tried the board again with the P100 and it POSTs and appears to work fine! 😁

What I think happened was:

The BIOS was bad when I first got the board hence neither CPU worked no matter what I tried
In the process of changing from the P100 to the K6-2 I accidentally forgot to change the voltage back down to 2.2v frying the K6 :@
Then I re-flashed the BIOS, which resulted in no POST or beeps hence I thought it was the same issue as before
Changing to the working P100 with the working BIOS and it POSTs!

I’m sad I managed to fry the K6-2 through a stupid mistake, I paid £14 for the board, CPU, cooler and RAM so if it all still worked that would have been a nice bargain these days. Still somewhat pleased as all I should need now is a new CPU and then I can get the system built up once case and video card arrives!

Cheers dionb for the very detailed and idiot-proof guide to doing this as otherwise I’d still be stuck with a dead board 😁

- 486DX2-66, SoundBlaster 16, Crystal VLB graphics
- P-MMX 200MHZ, PCChips M598LMR, Voodoo 1, AD1816
- PIII 933MHz, MSI MS6119, Voodoo3 3000, SB Live!
- PIII 1400MHz, ECS P6IPAT, Voodoo5 5500, SB Audigy

Reply 11 of 13, by IcySon55

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Hello @britain4, I'm interested in any knowledge you have of the CPU voltage jumpers on this SPAX board. I just got one myself though it already came with an AMD K6-2 300.

At the same time, what is the best K6 CPU that we can upgrade to on this board? I'm at a loss with the strange numbering going on between K6-III and 2+ etc...

Thanks!

Reply 12 of 13, by cyclone3d

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IcySon55 wrote on 2020-10-24, 21:03:

Hello @britain4, I'm interested in any knowledge you have of the CPU voltage jumpers on this SPAX board. I just got one myself though it already came with an AMD K6-2 300.

At the same time, what is the best K6 CPU that we can upgrade to on this board? I'm at a loss with the strange numbering going on between K6-III and 2+ etc...

Thanks!

K6-III - integrated 256KB L2 cache (first ones that had integrated cache - not very overclockable and run hot)
K6-III + integrated 256KB L2 cache but newer and runs at lower voltage and pretty easily overclockable and runs much cooler
K6-2+ integrated 128KB L2 cache. Otherwise the same as the K6-III+

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 13 of 13, by IcySon55

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Thanks for the recommendations cyclone.

I'm actually going to hold off any CPU upgrades until I can get my Sound Blaster AWE32 working on this board. It's not playing nice.