What translation from General Midi Standard to MT-32 Standard did you use for the MT-32?

elianda wrote:

What translation from General Midi Standard to MT-32 Standard did you use for the MT-32?

None, it's all advanced wave effects, but you can use AWEUTIL on DOS and the AWE control panel in Windows. Make sure to grab the MT sound bank from the AWE64 Gold section of Phil'sComputerLab's website, and check his awesome vids out.

But that isn't a MT-32 😜

The "standard" method of playing General MIDI on a real MT-32 is to use Roland's Sysex MIDI file for the purpose.

Ampera wrote:

elianda wrote:

What translation from General Midi Standard to MT-32 Standard did you use for the MT-32?

None, it's all advanced wave effects, but you can use AWEUTIL on DOS and the AWE control panel in Windows. Make sure to grab the MT sound bank from the AWE64 Gold section of Phil'sComputerLab's website, and check his awesome vids out.

I can't follow you, maybe I missed something:

1. You compared playing a General Midi Standard file rendered on the AWE32 in GM mode, on the Roland Sound Canvas and on the Roland MT-32. You did not use any translation for the Roland MT-32 which does not follow the GM standard. What is the point in comparing a General Midi Music file transferred to a device following MT-32 standard to a GM Music file rendered on an actual GM compatible device?

2. You now mention to use the MT-32 emulation of the AWE32 to accomplish a kind of MT-32 synth rendering. So did you use an actual Roland MT-32 or are you referring to the MT-32 emulation of a AWE32 ? Still point 1. applies for this case as well.

3. Phil is god 😉

elianda wrote:

I can't follow you, maybe I missed something: […]
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Ampera wrote:

elianda wrote:

What translation from General Midi Standard to MT-32 Standard did you use for the MT-32?

None, it's all advanced wave effects, but you can use AWEUTIL on DOS and the AWE control panel in Windows. Make sure to grab the MT sound bank from the AWE64 Gold section of Phil'sComputerLab's website, and check his awesome vids out.

I can't follow you, maybe I missed something:

1. You compared playing a General Midi Standard file rendered on the AWE32 in GM mode, on the Roland Sound Canvas and on the Roland MT-32. You did not use any translation for the Roland MT-32 which does not follow the GM standard. What is the point in comparing a General Midi Music file transferred to a device following MT-32 standard to a GM Music file rendered on an actual GM compatible device?

2. You now mention to use the MT-32 emulation of the AWE32 to accomplish a kind of MT-32 synth rendering. So did you use an actual Roland MT-32 or are you referring to the MT-32 emulation of a AWE32 ? Still point 1. applies for this case as well.

3. Phil is god 😉

This has gotten weird.

Look, I was comparing the MIDI quality to that of the Sound Canvas and MT-32, just the quality of the sound. No MT-32 anything was used in this instance, I only compared the two in audio quality.

Everything is technically using the General MIDI standard (With the AWE32 using it's own, built-in soundbank) so no MT-32 standard was used.

The AWE32 has MT-32 emulation, but it's sorta in the sense that you can buy the AWE32 and have the bonus of some sort of MT-32 compatibility, but it's not for the case of, I want an MT-32, so I will get the AWE32 for it's emulation. It's not like that, the emulation on the AWE32 is not as good as a true MT-32, but it's better than OPL synth on games like Civilization, and allows you to use MT-32 at all on a DOS system.

I like the AWE32 for it's swiss army knife quality, while some games may not be compatible, it sorta does everything, and on windows the MT-32 emulation is a lot more stable.

But, tl;dr I am only comparing the AWE32 and MT-32, I am not using any translation of any sort.

Here's mine. Anyone want to guess what sound card?

Thinking something Yamaha. Sounds a tad below Roland standards, and it's not a Creative card.

Ampera wrote:

Thinking something Yamaha. Sounds a tad below Roland standards, and it's not a Creative card.

It's actually a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz.

Ampera wrote:

For those who don't know, Passport.MID is a MIDI included with some, if not all of the Win9x versions of windows, and possibly m […]
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For those who don't know, Passport.MID is a MIDI included with some, if not all of the Win9x versions of windows, and possibly more (Not really sure tbh). It's a classic MIDI file, and a benchmark for a lot of sound cards.

So, post a recording of your MIDI rendition here! If you don't know how to record off MIDI, some devices like the SB Live have a way to directly record as an audio device, while some devices you need to run a loop from the speaker out to the line in (NOT MICROPHONE, THIS CAN DAMAGE YOUR SOUNDCARD(S)) and use recording software. If this still doesn't work, grab another computer with a Line In jack, and record using that (DO NOT USE MICROPHONE CONNECTOR)

So, time for my examples. I made 4 recordings, and they are as follows.

First off is traditional MIDI emulation using an OPL (In this case OPL3) chip. This is to my knowledge a "Fake" OPL3 off an AWE32 CT3670, which is basically an AWE64, so it's slightly worse than a regular OPL3 rendition.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xmljmgob91gped3/Pas … ortOPL.wav?dl=0

Second off is the AWE32 recording. This is using the default AWE32 synth off the same CT3670 AWE32 card.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tzwb0hhbyv8i6gf/Pas … tAWE32.wav?dl=0

Third is a recording using CoolSoft VirtualMidiSynth (Software SF synth) using the, quite frankly, disappointing SGM soundfont.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/261mcg99rmvy2o3/Pas … ortSF1.wav?dl=0

Finally, and fourthly, is the recording using the Giant Soundfont, and my favourite out of all.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vjc12ug53j6uc4q/Pas … ortSF2.wav?dl=0

Tell me what you guys think about my renditions. I think for what it is, the AWE32 rendition is pretty damn impressive, not as great as a Roland Sound Canvas, or hell just slightly worse than an MT-32, but considering those cost about 300 dollars more than this did, it's not bad at all. The OPL3 synth is pretty funny, it's trying so hard to sound good, but just can't quite cut the mustard.

1. I wouldn't call Passport.mid a benchmark for something. It's a classic tune, for sure, but nothing which utilizes something special from the synth.
2. The CT3670 uses Creative CQM - FM synthesisis, this is not a fake or something but Creatives own FM implementation for their past-OPL3 products. The CT3670 can also apply Reverb & Chorus to the CQM which suits the Passport.mid quite well. Wouldn't call the quality "worse" per se. It's a very subjective matter, though.
3. It makes no sense to playback a General Midi file (Passport.mid) using any kind of MT-32 emulation / device. What's the point?
Without a conversion (translation) of the file to match the MT-32 instruments it doesn't make any sense to playback / compare / listen to it. Of course it is possible to set the original MT-32 hardware into General Midi mode (via bank switch), but that's a completely different story.

I quite like our idea to make a comparison. It would be interesting to listen to the Passport.mid on different wavetable synths, e.g. Roland, Yamaha, Korg, Kurzweil, Turtle Beach, Gravis and some more.

Ampera wrote:

So, post a recording of your MIDI rendition here! If you don't know how to record off MIDI, some devices like the SB Live have a way to directly record as an audio device, while some devices you need to run a loop from the speaker out to the line in (NOT MICROPHONE, THIS CAN DAMAGE YOUR SOUNDCARD(S)) and use recording software. If this still doesn't work, grab another computer with a Line In jack, and record using that (DO NOT USE MICROPHONE CONNECTOR)

I'd like to record the sound from Yamaha YMF-718S OPL3 and softsynth as well as from a Yamaha SW60XG but I'm new to all this. What recording software would you recommend under Windows 95? The built-in program doesn't seem to work with line-in.

FGB wrote:

1. I wouldn't call Passport.mid a benchmark for something. It's a classic tune, for sure, but nothing which utilizes something s […]
Show full quote

Ampera wrote:

For those who don't know, Passport.MID is a MIDI included with some, if not all of the Win9x versions of windows, and possibly m […]
Show full quote

For those who don't know, Passport.MID is a MIDI included with some, if not all of the Win9x versions of windows, and possibly more (Not really sure tbh). It's a classic MIDI file, and a benchmark for a lot of sound cards.

So, post a recording of your MIDI rendition here! If you don't know how to record off MIDI, some devices like the SB Live have a way to directly record as an audio device, while some devices you need to run a loop from the speaker out to the line in (NOT MICROPHONE, THIS CAN DAMAGE YOUR SOUNDCARD(S)) and use recording software. If this still doesn't work, grab another computer with a Line In jack, and record using that (DO NOT USE MICROPHONE CONNECTOR)

So, time for my examples. I made 4 recordings, and they are as follows.

First off is traditional MIDI emulation using an OPL (In this case OPL3) chip. This is to my knowledge a "Fake" OPL3 off an AWE32 CT3670, which is basically an AWE64, so it's slightly worse than a regular OPL3 rendition.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xmljmgob91gped3/Pas … ortOPL.wav?dl=0

Second off is the AWE32 recording. This is using the default AWE32 synth off the same CT3670 AWE32 card.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tzwb0hhbyv8i6gf/Pas … tAWE32.wav?dl=0

Third is a recording using CoolSoft VirtualMidiSynth (Software SF synth) using the, quite frankly, disappointing SGM soundfont.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/261mcg99rmvy2o3/Pas … ortSF1.wav?dl=0

Finally, and fourthly, is the recording using the Giant Soundfont, and my favourite out of all.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vjc12ug53j6uc4q/Pas … ortSF2.wav?dl=0

Tell me what you guys think about my renditions. I think for what it is, the AWE32 rendition is pretty damn impressive, not as great as a Roland Sound Canvas, or hell just slightly worse than an MT-32, but considering those cost about 300 dollars more than this did, it's not bad at all. The OPL3 synth is pretty funny, it's trying so hard to sound good, but just can't quite cut the mustard.

1. I wouldn't call Passport.mid a benchmark for something. It's a classic tune, for sure, but nothing which utilizes something special from the synth.
2. The CT3670 uses Creative CQM - FM synthesisis, this is not a fake or something but Creatives own FM implementation for their past-OPL3 products. The CT3670 can also apply Reverb & Chorus to the CQM which suits the Passport.mid quite well. Wouldn't call the quality "worse" per se. It's a very subjective matter, though.
3. It makes no sense to playback a General Midi file (Passport.mid) using any kind of MT-32 emulation / device. What's the point?
Without a conversion (translation) of the file to match the MT-32 instruments it doesn't make any sense to playback / compare / listen to it. Of course it is possible to set the original MT-32 hardware into General Midi mode (via bank switch), but that's a completely different story.

I quite like our idea to make a comparison. It would be interesting to listen to the Passport.mid on different wavetable synths, e.g. Roland, Yamaha, Korg, Kurzweil, Turtle Beach, Gravis and some more.

1. Close enough.

2. Yea, subjective matter. It's not an original OPL3 which some people claim to be worse, I have heard people around here say it's not as good as true OPL3, but I don't have an OPL3 card with an original YM chip, so I couldn't tell. Doesn't matter to me.

3. Never said I used any MT-32 emulation of any sort. You can read through the entirety of the first thing I wrote, minus the edit, and I never once said I used MT-32 emulation. I said it runs slightly below the level of an MT-32 in terms of quality. I am aware they have different instrument sets, but they are both MIDI and use the same basic concept for producing music.

And yea, that was my idea of a benchmark, to see hour this classic tune compares on different systems.

jheronimus wrote:

Ampera wrote:

So, post a recording of your MIDI rendition here! If you don't know how to record off MIDI, some devices like the SB Live have a way to directly record as an audio device, while some devices you need to run a loop from the speaker out to the line in (NOT MICROPHONE, THIS CAN DAMAGE YOUR SOUNDCARD(S)) and use recording software. If this still doesn't work, grab another computer with a Line In jack, and record using that (DO NOT USE MICROPHONE CONNECTOR)

I'd like to record the sound from Yamaha YMF-718S OPL3 and softsynth as well as from a Yamaha SW60XG but I'm new to all this. What recording software would you recommend under Windows 95? The built-in program doesn't seem to work with line-in.

You can try an old version of Audacity, but I personally had to use another computer with a Line-in connector, and there I used Audacity. It depends on the version of Windows, among other things.

Played by a PCI ESS Solo-1 under Windows 98SE using the ESFM MIDI synth.

Using my IBM Aptiva, one is from the MWave card and the other is the Yamaha XG70 softsynth.

Related to this issue, here's passport in Virtual PC 2007's horrible OPL emulation 😉

Nice thread Ampera.
Here are two recordings. One from the emulated OPL3 chip on a ESS AudioDrive 1868F and one from the X2 DreamBlaster attached on the wavetable header.
Noticeable slowdowns on the emulated OPL3, nice and smooth on the X2!
Enjoy. W.

Not bad. OPL3 emulation is definitely on the slow side. My AWE32 uses the same OPL3 tech as the AWE64/64 Gold, which is not an OPL3, but some sort of integrated deal. I am still not quite sure what it is, but it works fine.

General MIDI is pretty good. It's a step above the AWE32, not as good as a modern soundfont, but that soundfont is larger than most average 486 and P5 era hard drives. Thanks for posting.

Probably a CT1978 chip which is CQM, the same as the AWE64.

My favorite ones