shevalier wrote on 2025-03-13, 10:46:

For multichannel acoustics, there is no point in activating the CMSS3D at all.

Yup, I keep CMSS completely turned off when using my surround speakers.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-03-13, 07:49:

In fact, Creative's official audio guide for Battlefield 2142 recommends using the Headphone mode normally, turning CMSS-3D on, and leaving everything on Auto.

I just played a bit of Battlefield 2142 (offline instant action with bots) on my WinXP rig. In this game, Creative's recommended setup does seem to be the best way to experience EAX when using headphones on an X-Fi card. So in the Creative Console Launcher select Headphones, check "Synchronize with Control Panel", enable CMSS-3D and leave MacroFX and Elevation Filter on Auto.

To test this, play the Verdun map and listen closely as the ships take off at the very start. You can actually hear them flying above your head when everything is configured properly.

I also noticed that when you stand directly below one of the nearby flag poles, you can hear the flag flapping in the wind above you.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-03-13, 11:57:

You can actually hear them flying above your head when everything is configured properly.

This effect is present in movies and games where the sound director was not deaf.
5.1 audio stream contains enough spatial information for the CMSS3 to work properly.
In games that give coordinates of sound sources via DirectSound or OpenAL - everything is generally fine with this.

PS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_Control_ … peration_Exodus
I highly recommend trying it, all the effects of X-Fi are revealed in full.
Despite the fact that it is RTS 😀

shevalier wrote on 2025-03-13, 07:06:

PS. I have the impression that everyone either listens to their "some own implementation" of X-Fi, or doesn’t understand what i […]
Show full quote

PS. I have the impression that everyone either listens to their "some own implementation" of X-Fi, or doesn’t understand what it is at all.
Has anyone reached this menu in Windows, and what should be selected for X-Fi?

Or the following menu.
Should I disable the "software emulation" of the CMSS3D in the Windows sound path?
Or this will do.

It really does seem like everyone has to find their own combination of tools and settings to make it work for them, and there doesn't seem to be any real consensus. I've found results that say Windows should be in stereo or surround.

I was never that impressed with CMSS-3D, and it may just be that I never found a working combination for my setup, but I want to try. My Ti HD for backwards compatibility, and for general use I might get an external DAC/AMP.

The closest thing I've found to a comprehensive guide for one way to do it is in this post: https://hardforum.com/threads/thx-true-studio … post-1039874615

Here's some more info about CMSS-3D from the X-Fi Demo Disc:

The bit about 128 virtual positions (including above and below) is interesting. From my experience, sound positioning with regards to elevation works best when using headphones.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-03-14, 11:26:

Here's some more info about CMSS-3D from the X-Fi Demo Disc:

The bit about 128 virtual positions (including above and below) is interesting.

This is a marketing ploy.
X-fi supports 128 audio streams (Audigy - 64, SoundBlaster - 32)

They can be with coordinates if the game uses DirectSound or OpenAL.
Unreal Tournament, which Creative wrote itself, does not load more than 30.
128 sources will turn into a mess

shevalier wrote on 2025-03-14, 11:42:

This is a marketing ploy.
X-fi supports 128 audio streams (Audigy - 64, SoundBlaster - 32)

It does sound a bit over the top to me as well.

Maybe they meant to say that CMSS-3D can position each of the 128 available audio streams at a set of virtual coordinates around the listener. If that works, it would be seriously impressive. But as you say, it's hard to tell whether this is just cleverly worded marketing.

Well last night I finally did it. I "downgraded" my ZxR back to my Ti HD using the last Daniel_K drivers on Win 11.

I only tested before and after in Bioshock and Prey, but the results really are night and day better with this card.

DeadOfKnight wrote on 2025-03-14, 22:49:

Well last night I finally did it. I "downgraded" my ZxR back to my Ti HD using the last Daniel_K drivers on Win 11.

I only tested before and after in Bioshock and Prey, but the results really are night and day better with this card.

The X-Fi Titanium HD is the last Creative card which still had hardware based EAX processing (via the CA20K2 chip). This is probably why it sounds better. Everything that came after it used some software based solution.

Also, both BioShock and Prey support EAX via OpenAL. This means that the EAX implementation in those games isn't dependent on DirectSound3D, and will therefore work fine on Windows Vista and newer, while still being able to utilize hardware based EAX processing on your card.

A while back I bought a SB0880 Fatal1ty with the intention of replacing the X-Fi Xtreme Music in my XP machine, but I ended up experimentally putting it in my main Win10 PC instead and am loving it.

It sounds nicer in general but what I'm really appreciating is the improvement to older games thanks to ALchemy. Even with 2.1's there's a marked improvement to the sound stage and audio positioning - Far Cry 2 is a standout, the bullets really wizz around you. Here's my humble list:

badmojo wrote on 2025-03-15, 11:03:

It sounds nicer in general but what I'm really appreciating is the improvement to older games thanks to ALchemy. Even with 2.1's there's a marked improvement to the sound stage and audio positioning - Far Cry 2 is a standout, the bullets really wizz around you. Here's my humble list:

Heh, I like seeing the Gothic games there. Reminds me that I need to try Archolos sometime soon.

By the way, you can also apply ALchemy to Risen, if you have it installed. After doing that, the in-game audio options will change from "Software" to "Hardware" like so:

The game has slightly better positional audio that way, at least to my ears.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-03-15, 11:16:

By the way, you can also apply ALchemy to Risen, if you have it installed. After doing that, the in-game audio options will change from "Software" to "Hardware" like so:

Yes I did try it with Risen but decided I couldn't make out any difference, where with other games it's totally obvious when it works. I just tried it again now and notice that the in-game settings report Hardware audio regardless of whether ALchemy is enabled or not. This is with Windows 10, not sure if that makes a difference or not.

Hmm now I want to play Risen again.

badmojo wrote on 2025-03-16, 03:00:

I just tried it again now and notice that the in-game settings report Hardware audio regardless of whether ALchemy is enabled or not. This is with Windows 10, not sure if that makes a difference or not.

Is that with the latest Steam update i.e. the one which adds controller support? I think they may have changed how the sound system works for that release. The retail game from 2009 + patch 1.11 behaves as previously described.

Hmm now I want to play Risen again.

Always a good idea! 😀 I really like its soundtrack, and I'm glad to have the physical audio CD which came as a bonus disc with my retail copy.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-03-16, 04:43:

Is that with the latest Steam update i.e. the one which adds controller support? I think they may have changed how the sound system works for that release. The retail game from 2009 + patch 1.11 behaves as previously described.

No it's not the Steam version - I'd assumed I installed it from the original DVD that I bought on release but I just checked my notes and it appears that I installed it from a version I bought and downloaded from GamersGate many years ago. I probably couldn't be bothered searching around for the DVD 😁

Anyway according to my notes I then installed the official patch 1.10 (maybe 1.11 wasn't out then), and then the unofficial patch 1.3, then quite a few mods.

Just having a quick Google and there have been a few developments since I last installed it, which was probably 8 years ago now. There's a remaster mod and a 64 bit version was release too apparently.

I have some reading to do.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-03-16, 04:43:

Is that with the latest Steam update i.e. the one which adds controller support? I think they may have changed how the sound system works for that release. The retail game from 2009 + patch 1.11 behaves as previously described.

Apparently EAX has been patched out of a few games on Steam. I guess there may be some games worth buying on GOG to have access to a pre-patched version for this, if there isn't a mod to bring it back.

Looks like KOTOR 2 is one of them.

DeadOfKnight wrote on 2025-03-16, 17:58:

Apparently EAX has been patched out of a few games on Steam. I guess there may be some games worth buying on GOG to have access to a pre-patched version for this, if there isn't a mod to bring it back.

Looks like KOTOR 2 is one of them.

Yeah, I've noticed that for a few games that received additional updates over the years.

Another example is the original Splinter Cell, which has broken support for EAX 3.0 on both GOG and Ubisoft. Thankfully, there's now an XDelta patch which restores it.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-03-16, 19:04:

DeadOfKnight wrote on 2025-03-16, 17:58:

Apparently EAX has been patched out of a few games on Steam. I guess there may be some games worth buying on GOG to have access to a pre-patched version for this, if there isn't a mod to bring it back.

Looks like KOTOR 2 is one of them.

Yeah, I've noticed that for a few games that received additional updates over the years.

Another example is the original Splinter Cell, which has broken support for EAX 3.0 on both GOG and Ubisoft. Thankfully, there's now an XDelta patch which restores it.

It also seems like most remasters do away with it. Not sure if it's always a net negative. Maybe some of them actually put in the work to update the game for modern standards like Dolby Atmos, but it's probably a rarity. Audio tends to be neglected.

shevalier wrote on 2025-03-13, 14:49:

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-03-13, 11:57:

You can actually hear them flying above your head when everything is configured properly.

5.1 audio stream contains enough spatial information for the CMSS3 to work properly.
In games that give coordinates of sound sources via DirectSound or OpenAL - everything is generally fine with this.

But CMSS3D does not make use of a multichannel source, it starts straight from a basic stereo feed

SansPlomb95 wrote on 2025-03-17, 20:50:

But CMSS3D does not make use of a multichannel source, it starts straight from a basic stereo feed

After reading this guide by Creative (aimed at Vista and Win7), my theory is as follows. If a game uses DirectSound3D or OpenAL, then X-Fi CMSS-3D Headphone can use those APIs to position sounds in a virtual 3D environment all around the listener (including above and below). You can leave the Windows and X-Fi speaker settings at "Headphones" in such cases.

However, if a game isn't using DirectSound3D nor OpenAL, and instead has its own software mixer or some other API, then it's better to select 5.1 (or 7.1) inside the game's audio options (if available) prior to passing that to X-Fi CMSS-3D Headphone.

Again, this is just my theory based on what I've read so far. Someone feel free to correct me if different information is available elsewhere. Also, this theory specifically applies to X-Fi CMSS-3D Headphone, and not any other CMSS mode.

The last bit is a relevant clue, indeed, so I could we wrong depending on the title

Note: With games that allow independent selection of surround sound, set your in-game speaker selection to the highest available e.g. 7.1 or 5.1. This will provide CMSS-3D with the most number of streams possible to emulate. Refer to your game application manual on how to further setup and configure.