igna78 wrote on 2024-12-25, 00:30:

MK1869 Extreme is amazing, the only thing I wish was different is the ability to use memory SIMs (I don't like soldered memory on sound cards) 😉

I don't miss the 30-pin SIMM thing at all, the sockets are bulky and prone to oxidation/failure, etc... The failure rate on modern memory chips is so low and they are so small I see no point in this particular retro throwback which was more a function of necessity (people were ditching old computers that used 30-pin RAM so it was more or less surplus.. today they are far rarer, more expensive and of wildly varying specs/quality). The BGA RAM chip is probably cheaper than the socket to accommodate a 30 or 72-pin SIMM and it also takes up way less board space, all of which means smaller/cheaper cards with greater reliability and simplicity for the end user.

I appreciate the efforts to modernize classic chipsets and card designs but the cost of these (for practical reasons, not a criticism of their designers) is still significantly limiting the potential audience that can afford them, as good as this hardware is. Pairing something like a PicoGUS with a WavetablePi is probably the most cost effective way to enjoy a huge list of classic sound cards and MIDI modules on the cheap, which gives people on the cost-focused end of the enthusiast spectrum a way to experience this old sound hardware as well. It really is a golden age for retro hardware & software as, ironically, advances in open source hardware/software converged with numerous emulation/DOSBox focused projects and have jumped the rails back into physical hardware solutions for old computers.

Kahenraz wrote on 2025-01-20, 15:49:

Attaching the PCMIDI module like that looks like it's going to block larger wavetable boards from being used.

not at all, full-size wt boards fit fine, they just extend past the card

Oh, it goes the other direction? Do you know for sure if the Yamaha DB50XG will fit?

Kahenraz wrote on 2025-01-20, 19:46:

Oh, it goes the other direction? Do you know for sure if the Yamaha DB50XG will fit?

I do not have a DB50XG anymore but I can take a pic tomorrow with a full-size old wt board 😀

It looks awesome! Looking forward to get one 😀

Kahenraz wrote on 2025-01-20, 19:46:

Oh, it goes the other direction? Do you know for sure if the Yamaha DB50XG will fit?

here it is, crappy lighting storage photo 😁 there is a couple mm space between the pcbs

Thank you. It should work great then.

Just a question of understanding.
Will the MK1869 Xtreme be a fully functional GUS PnP like the Orpheus II?
Or will it only provide a GUS wavetable bank as if you would have attached a GUS-like daughterboard?

crusher wrote on 2025-01-23, 09:19:

Just a question of understanding.
Will the MK1869 Xtreme be a fully functional GUS PnP like the Orpheus II?
Or will it only provide a GUS wavetable bank as if you would have attached a GUS-like daughterboard?

fully functional GUS PnP with 4mb RAM and 1mb rom-bank
there is no option to use a SIMM or add more ram

Thanks for the answer keropi!
This "sounds" awesome and the card looks great with that red color like the original GUS ones.
I will definitely order one when it becomes available for purchase.

I hope the extreme variant gets an optional e-wave bundle, so you can get IW and ESS wavetable ROMs.

I need to confess, guys: the "Extreme" variant is my dream coming true!
Great thanks for that!
During the Orpheus II project i was silently crying - "...why Crystal, and not ESS? ". And, it is materializing now! (can't wait until it will become available...)

But I have a question about the PC-MIDI add-on card (displayed in MK1869 page) - will it also be offered as option? It it PC/104, or proprietary port?

Sheff wrote on 2025-02-03, 14:52:

I need to confess, guys: the "Extreme" variant is my dream coming true! Great thanks for that! During the Orpheus II project […]
Show full quote

I need to confess, guys: the "Extreme" variant is my dream coming true!
Great thanks for that!
During the Orpheus II project i was silently crying - "...why Crystal, and not ESS? ". And, it is materializing now! (can't wait until it will become available...)

But I have a question about the PC-MIDI add-on card (displayed in MK1869 page) - will it also be offered as option? It it PC/104, or proprietary port?

Preference aside the CS4237 is clearly the superior chip in both performance and features so it was the perfect thing to use for the Orpheus cards.
Currently the ESS design is changed and beefed-up in the hopes it will sound even better than what we already have - aiming for the max performance now.
I will post pics once the new protos have arrived.

The ISA expansion header is just a passthrough: top row is A0~A31 , bottom row is B0~B31 , see the back of the red card here: Re: MK1869 : new soundcard based on ESS 1869 and ES690 chips . I am not sure if this is PC104 compatible or not though... and it will be an option for purchase just like with the previous cards that use the same expansion port.

About E-WAVE bundle - we almost always have serdashop bundles 😉

Thanks for your reply, Keropi!
Regarding Crystal - no doubts on the technical side of the choice. That's a piece of perfection of that time, indeed.
But I was thinking about ESS as of the "sweet spot" from the very generic retro-PC end-user.
This chip is 110% compatible with everything. Sounds super identical to OPL3. Neither having issues with wavetables nor any sound artifacts.
(And, as it was most widely spread, most probably it is still available and not too expensive.)

That's all what nostalgic oldie need! 😀

Now, blending it with the GUS and PC-MIDI - it is just a mind-blowing cocktail ! (at least for me)
Thanks for your efforts!

I'm very excited for this project, i love the ESS AudioDrive for it's compatibility combined with the GUS it will be a jack of all trades.

keropi wrote on 2025-02-03, 15:49:

Preference aside the CS4237 is clearly the superior chip in both performance and features so it was the perfect thing to use for the Orpheus cards.

Which CS4237 features are you missing in the ES1869? I know the ESS doesn't have the S/PDIF output, but I know there were some external chips that could handle it, Guillemot Maxi Sound 64 used one (though I'm not sure about the routing, it might have been connected to the Dream chip). Otherwise, I always thought the ESS is comparable to the Crystal. Is the ESS's analog output that much worse than the Crystal's? Or are there any other issues?

GL1zdA wrote on 2025-02-04, 09:20:

Which CS4237 features are you missing in the ES1869?[...]

Not dissing ESS but it has worst sound performance, no external opl3 support, no spdif , no 16bit audio for DOS
some can be fixed externally by adding stuff but the quality performance and internal design cannot be fixed
but you gain more sbpro compatibilty with ESS so there's that 😀

keropi wrote on 2025-02-04, 09:46:

no external opl3 support

Is that a real problem? Can anybody actually hear the difference between ESS and true OPL3 ?
And ESFM is a very nice bonus...

no 16bit audio for DOS

Mpxplay
Open Cubic Player
QuickView Pro

And it's perfectly possible to create more...

keropi wrote on 2025-02-04, 09:46:

no 16bit audio for DOS

The native AudioDrive mode should work with games that use the Miles Sound System. You just need to use the updated AUDIODRV.DIG file. I've reported some of my experiences with that in this thread. That was with the 1868F though, but it might work with the 1869 as well.

For reference, that AUDIODRV.DIG file is from Heroes of Might and Magic 2 + Price of Loyalty expansion pack + latest official patch. I think that's probably the newest available version of the Miles Sound System for DOS.

we are now entering the realm of workarounds, extra drivers and messing about with stuff 🤣
I will eventually test that miles driver with ES1869 - is there some easy game to test this that would run on my testbench 386DX system?