Shponglefan wrote on 2024-12-01, 22:37:

theelf wrote on 2024-12-01, 22:25:

Is EVERYTHING for me, i cant use a OS i dont like is impossible to me

Is not a XP thing, is that XP still is possible to customize in morea classic way, like win95 or NT4, i hate this horrible XP icons for example, god, is worst thing ever, even windows 10+ icons are better than the ones in XP... are crap

But *why* is something like the number of colors used in an icon a deal breaker for you? That's what I'm trying to understand here.

Because i need to feel comfortable using the OS, i like to feel i using the os, not the oppposite way. And i always really hate 256 colors icons, my good, looks so horrible. Is so perfect to use a fixed low color palette and just use imagination!!!

theelf wrote on 2024-12-01, 22:41:

Because i need to feel comfortable using the OS, i like to feel i using the os, not the oppposite way. And i always really hate 256 colors icons, my good, looks so horrible

Why do you think they look horrible?

For point of comparison, this is a 16 color icon versus a 256 color icon. To me, they look pretty similar.

edited to add:

I believe it was Windows 98 that introduced 256 color icons. If you're talking about the native icons in Windows XP, I believe those are 32-bit icons (e.g. 24 bit color + alpha), not 256 color.

I feel with you, theelf - still on WinXPSP3 POSReady "hacked" here, too...also with Paint Shop Pro 7, but Office 2003 (instead of 2000) and 7-Zip (instead of WinRAR). I never tried Windows Vista (only an early Beta of Longhorn, the UI is quite OK I guess, but UAC is ugly), but I tried a lot to make Windows 7 in Classic mode feel like WinXP and earlier...no way, I hate it. Additionally menus and dialogues were totally mixed up, most things aren't where you expect them to be and what I read/heard with every version (8(.1), 10, 11) it's getting worse.

ReactOS could be a replacement for WinXP, it feels like 2k/XP - but development is not very fast, unfortunately.

theelf wrote on 2024-12-01, 20:32:

Hey windows XP is not perfect neither, but is still possible to fix all the microsoft garbage, for example, i edited all DLL, EXE, CPL etc and remove 256+ color icons, and left only 16 colors one, restore all classic CPLs from NT4, etc and only when i do this i can feel the OS is confortable to use

This one I don't understand... I did the other way around and got an explorer.exe with 256 colors tray icon support for my Win98SE back then in 2006 (?).

theelf wrote on 2024-12-01, 20:32:

...for example remove trustedinstaller from the system...

Whoa this annoying thing bloats up RAM usage near to explosion on Win7...this was new to me and I didn't know it is removable!? I didn't get deep into that because I use Win7 only for a few things, very few.

theelf wrote on 2024-12-01, 20:58:

Of course if i still can use XP is because the community there is a new browser version, sadly chrome is not soo easy to customize, the most i can do was this

Did you ever try roytam1's browser builds like New Moon 28 or Serpent 52/55? On the Screenshot from right now you can see NM28 (and PSP7 😉).

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-12-01, 22:44:

Why do you think they look horrible?

For point of comparison, this is a 16 color icon versus a 256 color icon. To me, they look pretty similar.

There were even icons which looked horrible in 16 colors, if I remember correctly nVidia used a 256 color tray icon in early/mid 2000 and that looked ugly in 16 bit...after changing the explorer.exe to a 256 color supporting version it looked normal.

kind regards
soggi

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-12-01, 22:44:

Why do you think they look horrible? […]
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theelf wrote on 2024-12-01, 22:41:

Because i need to feel comfortable using the OS, i like to feel i using the os, not the oppposite way. And i always really hate 256 colors icons, my good, looks so horrible

Why do you think they look horrible?

For point of comparison, this is a 16 color icon versus a 256 color icon. To me, they look pretty similar.

The attachment 16 color icon.PNG is no longer available

The attachment 256 color icon.PNG is no longer available

No way, second one is horrible . Remember when i installed win98 first thing was looking a way to revert to old icons, same happen to NT4

I still remember i was using NT4 in a server enviroment and never used any graphic driver, because the server have just a 256kb ISA VGA card, then one day i came back home with a NT4 professional CDrom, installed it, install my cirrus logic drivers and....WTF!!! the icons was so terrible, i almost died jeje, thank good was still possible to revert

soggi wrote on 2024-12-01, 22:49:

I feel with you, theelf - still on WinXPSP3 POSReady "hacked" here, too...also with Paint Shop Pro 7, but Office 2003 (instead […]
Show full quote

I feel with you, theelf - still on WinXPSP3 POSReady "hacked" here, too...also with Paint Shop Pro 7, but Office 2003 (instead of 2000) and 7-Zip (instead of WinRAR). I never tried Windows Vista (only an early Beta of Longhorn, the UI is quite OK I guess, but UAC is ugly), but I tried a lot to make Windows 7 in Classic mode feel like WinXP and earlier...no way, I hate it. Additionally menus and dialogues were totally mixed up, most things aren't where you expect them to be and what I read/heard with every version (8(.1), 10, 11) it's getting worse.

ReactOS could be a replacement for WinXP, it feels like 2k/XP - but development is not very fast, unfortunately.

theelf wrote on 2024-12-01, 20:32:

Hey windows XP is not perfect neither, but is still possible to fix all the microsoft garbage, for example, i edited all DLL, EXE, CPL etc and remove 256+ color icons, and left only 16 colors one, restore all classic CPLs from NT4, etc and only when i do this i can feel the OS is confortable to use

This one I don't understand... I did the other way around and got an explorer.exe with 256 colors tray icon support for my Win98SE back then in 2006 (?).

theelf wrote on 2024-12-01, 20:32:

...for example remove trustedinstaller from the system...

Whoa this annoying thing bloats up RAM usage near to explosion on Win7...this was new to me and I didn't know it is removable!? I didn't get deep into that because I use Win7 only for a few things, very few.

theelf wrote on 2024-12-01, 20:58:

Of course if i still can use XP is because the community there is a new browser version, sadly chrome is not soo easy to customize, the most i can do was this

Did you ever try roytam1's browser builds like New Moon 28 or Serpent 52/55? On the Screenshot from right now you can see NM28 (and PSP7 😉).

kind regards
soggi

Hi, ies is possible to remove trustedinstaller user, but is a lot of work to put back all permissions again to user/admin, still need to do, because im forced to have a laptop with win10 or 11 for working stuff

About roytam1 new moon i dont use anymore, i love the way i can customize to look like old lovely netscape, but really, they are slow and not very functional for everyday internet surfing. Im using thorium now, and is a modern chromium, i dont like chromium, but is modern and every site work

theelf wrote on 2024-12-01, 22:51:

No way, second one is horrible . Remember when i installed win98 first thing was looking a way to revert to old icons, same happen to NT4

Out of curiosity, do you feel this way about 256+ colors in general? IOW, do you prefer to play games in 16-color EGA for example and eschew anything with VGA or higher color depth?

theelf wrote on 2024-12-01, 20:58:

I made a post long time ago […]
Show full quote

Cosmic wrote on 2024-12-01, 20:48:

theelf wrote on 2024-12-01, 20:32:

Hey windows XP is not perfect neither, but is still possible to fix all the microsoft garbage, for example, i edited all DLL, EXE, CPL etc and remove 256+ color icons, and left only 16 colors one, restore all classic CPLs from NT4, etc and only when i do this i can feel the OS is confortable to use

This sounds very cool! I would love to see how this looks on your system if you have any screenshots handy. NT4 does have a certain austere charm...

I made a post long time ago

Re: Customize Windows XP to look like 95

For example, right now my XP looks like this

The attachment desktop.png is no longer available

Of course if i still can use XP is because the community there is a new browser version, sadly chrome is not soo easy to customize, the most i can do was this

The attachment thorium.png is no longer available

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2024-12-01, 20:38:

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-12-01, 19:11:

What do mean by uncomfortable? Is there anything specific you don't like about newer operating systems?

My heart says it's about a "lack of transparency"

Transparency is the worst invention after rounded stuff 😀

nice look but resolutions too high, needs to be 640x480 max 😀 even lower for extra points.🤣

on a serious note, is that side bar from MS office 97, i used to love having all my progams on differnt bars to switch between, also is that netscape at the top, is that still usable?

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-12-01, 22:53:

theelf wrote on 2024-12-01, 22:51:

No way, second one is horrible . Remember when i installed win98 first thing was looking a way to revert to old icons, same happen to NT4

Out of curiosity, do you feel this way about 256+ colors in general? IOW, do you prefer to play games in 16-color EGA for example and eschew anything with VGA or higher color depth?

mm.. icons only... but yes, i love more 16colors ega with dithering over VGA all the way, monkey island or loom i cant play in vga... man ega is amazing

DudeFace wrote on 2024-12-01, 22:58:

nice look but resolutions too high, needs to be 640x480 max 😀 even lower for extra points.🤣

on a serious note, is that side bar from MS office 97, i used to love having all my progams on differnt bars to switch between, also is that netscape at the top, is that still usable?

Love 640x480, i cant use windows 3.1 in anything but 640x480!! sadly modern times 1280x1024 or 1920x1xxx is minimum usable for working

Oh netscape is working and email too! netscape only use for testing stuff, but email part i use for my email software

The side bar is just windows one with True Launch Bar, great software, now free!

I know what you mean,
I hated XP when it first came out, but after years of supporting it at work, it became my last favourite windows version.
I don't enjoy any later versions of windows, but I don't hate them, Now I use it the same as a tap, door handle, etc. just to do what I need to do without any strong feelings.

Anyway things like this exist that mod Windows 10 to feel more like XP, if you needed a newer OS but then your going to have to find suitable replacements for other apps like office.
https://youtu.be/ddlACU88Z30?si=P2HylAkwv2O0_jLV

but if using XP doesn't hold you back and you hate all the alternatives then don't upgrade. Only you know what works for you

theelf wrote on 2024-12-01, 23:00:

mm.. icons only... but yes, i love more 16colors ega with dithering over VGA all the way, monkey island or loom i cant play in […]
Show full quote

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-12-01, 22:53:

theelf wrote on 2024-12-01, 22:51:

No way, second one is horrible . Remember when i installed win98 first thing was looking a way to revert to old icons, same happen to NT4

Out of curiosity, do you feel this way about 256+ colors in general? IOW, do you prefer to play games in 16-color EGA for example and eschew anything with VGA or higher color depth?

mm.. icons only... but yes, i love more 16colors ega with dithering over VGA all the way, monkey island or loom i cant play in vga... man ega is amazing

DudeFace wrote on 2024-12-01, 22:58:

nice look but resolutions too high, needs to be 640x480 max 😀 even lower for extra points.🤣

on a serious note, is that side bar from MS office 97, i used to love having all my progams on differnt bars to switch between, also is that netscape at the top, is that still usable?

Love 640x480, i cant use windows 3.1 in anything but 640x480!! sadly modern times 1280x1024 or 1920x1xxx is minimum usable for working

Oh netscape is working and email too! netscape only use for testing stuff, but email part i use for my email software

The attachment Image1.png is no longer available

The side bar is just windows one with True Launch Bar, great software, now free!

yeah 640x480 is a bit low for modern stuff, cool that netscape is still usable, in fact i think my dad used a similar looking program for his email till a few years ago, think it was an old version of outlook, had to wait for his messages to download 🤣.

just found a 64bit version of true launch bar from their site, also for me personally CGA is where its at, just tried a recent game called The Eternal Castle and also an old one Blade Warrior, reminds me of old Amstrad CPC/ZX Spectrum games, which for me is peak!

I always loved XP. And I love Windows 95/98 just the same. Mostly for Nostalgia purpose, I guess. Good old days with the best memorable Windows games imho. (Not to mention I'm a DOS junkie and will always have DOS installed - currently using 86Box to boot into DOS just like the old days, anytime anywhere, using my laptop.)

I even bought used 3rd gen intel core processor Thinkpads to install Windows XP and 7, to keep them alive. (3rd gen core processors are the last gen with official Windows XP support.)

Briefly used Vista and then was using 7 for a long time. Didn't like the change they made to the UI - I preferred Windows XP a lot more. After we're forced to upgrade to Windows 10, I decided to move to Linux. I still have current Windows (now Win 11) installed in its own partition but I rarely use it. Just boot into it to update it. Still keeping it for some obscure programs that can run without too much workaround.

My main OS has been Linux for more than a decade now. Was using Arch for a long time. Now shifted to Debian Stable. Want something that is rock solid without breaking the system after a rolling update. And I never looked back to current Windows as a main OS anymore. And WINE and PROTON have improved considerably that I'm able to play most latest games in Steam or Epic via Heroic Game Launcher at exactly native Windows performance. Sometimes I feel Linux run these games even better.

"Tell me you're getting old without telling me you're getting old"

Sorry as old as recorded history.

Plato complained about the youth of today.

The Amish set up a whole society. They're hardly alone.

Bet plenty of old guys preferred horses to cars even if they could afford it.

http://www.classicshell.net/features/
Might be one option. It'll never be perfect because Ms like to rearrange the control panel and everything else for shits and giggles

"classicshell" is missing-the-point crap advice. The start menu is not the end-all issue here, it's not going to restore color schemes, fonts, window edges/borders, make windows less sentient, etc. Not embracing metro's garbage UX != being a luddite / 'nostalgia' / retro

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-12-01, 22:44:

I believe it was Windows 98 that introduced 256 color icons.

Win95 Plus had them but it's a wildly different artstyle for them (no hard outlines, more pastel adjacent and stylish imho)

Technically Win3.1 also supports 256 color icons, no one just made them 😀

When I tried Chicago95 in Debian it was all broken and regressed (plus didn't work because it relied on a specific version of Inkscape that isn't available in a repository and Inkscape itself is a hell to compile. woo dependency hell. also 'just get the flatpak' is only for x86_64.)

Also there's another matter - raster/bitmap fonts. Linux distros often disable support for them, and they're a key part of the Windows appearance. There's at least one conversion of the MS sans serif font to the OTB format linux can use.

As for browsers, Seamonkey is probably what you'll want. It still has releases for linux (and still has Netscape's design while rejecting Firefox's new bullshit), though downstream distros don't want to carry it anymore (it's either chromium / firefox-esr for you there) and good luck finding anyone willing to figure out non-x86 arch for it.

Malik wrote on 2024-12-02, 01:53:

And WINE and PROTON have improved considerably

Yes, but with a caveat - old GPUs without Vulkan support are doomed.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-12-01, 22:14:

There is a project called Chicago95 which is a conversion of Ubuntu Linux to make it look and feel like Windows 95: https://github.com/grassmunk/Chicago95

As sad and unfortunate as this is (I'm still using it regardless) I think Chicago95's days are numbered. GTK3's "Client Side Decoration" system and more and more stuff being built around that completely destroys the theme. GTK4 is a even worse can of worms. The theme does not natively support Qt applications either and those can and will clash against the theme but the default QT theme isn't as oppressive as GTK4's.

leileilol wrote on 2024-12-02, 02:42:

When I tried Chicago95 in Debian it was all broken and regressed (plus didn't work because it relied on a specific version of Inkscape that isn't available in a repository and Inkscape itself is a hell to compile. woo dependency hell. also 'just get the flatpak' is only for x86_64.)

Can confirm about the regressions and it's really only going to continue to get worse. As far as I know the theme only really shined in old releases of the entire Xfce desktop environment and only with programs built against GTK2 specifically. GTK3 broke everything with it's idiotic "Client Side Decoration" interface. There's no sane way to make the theme cooperate with Qt either because it wasn't made for Qt in the beginning.

Feels like the only way to continue making use of Chicago95 as a full theme on Linux is to use the oldest listed version of Xfce they say you can use it on, and hack everything to be built against GTK2 instead of GTK3 and avoid GTK3, GTK4, and above like the plague which is easier said than done.

or maybe bring back kde3.5's redmond somehow. KDE3.5's redmond was *excellent* at recreating the win9x look (including gradient captions and different color schemes), then that was forgotten after 4/plasma happened. The Redmond-lookalike themes dub it as "Reactionary" now (to pun on ReactOS I suppose) and they're largely off in some way (within the pile of win11 toothpaste foam shit clones)

leileilol wrote on 2024-12-02, 06:17:

and they're largely off in some way (within the pile of win11 toothpaste foam shit clones)

Like how Wine can't really do it properly? (uncheck the ability for the windows to be decorated by the window manager in winecfg)

Modern OSs are alpha-quality bloatware where everything is half-broken and constantly in need of "updates" that cause more regressions than improvements. The UIs are crap on purpose. User-hostile security theater is rampant. It's all designed to keep product life cycles short, keep money flowing, and phase-out general-purpose PCs so they can be replaced with disposable consumption appliances.

Talking about linux, someone tried this?

https://gist.github.com/z3ntu/66eb01704d3d044 … da8bc299a83add8

KDE 1 was amazing... but i dont know how will work with modern qt and gtk sofwtware! i want to test

bakemono wrote on 2024-12-02, 14:35:

Modern OSs are alpha-quality bloatware where everything is half-broken and constantly in need of "updates" that cause more regressions than improvements. The UIs are crap on purpose. User-hostile security theater is rampant. It's all designed to keep product life cycles short

What? For Windows desktop, OS lifespans have gotten longer, not shorter.

For example, measured by lifespan of official support, Windows 10 has had a practical lifespan of a decade.

In contrast, Windows 95 and 98 had lifespans of about half that (5 years apiece).

https://www.technologyreview.com/2002/07/01/4 … ware-is-so-bad/

This was written in 2002, so... Heh, some believe enshitiffication started with none other than XP.

I don't miss legacy Windows, nor the default grey Win9x theme that looks so depressing like it came out of the cemetery. Not that the default whiteness in 10 is much better...but it runs everything I throw at it, no reason to mess with legacy Windows or even Linux for me, though the latter comes in handy for some specific tasks, but as a general desktop OS, tried it, didn't like it, I just encountered a host of other problems and considering I have preference for certain Windows only software, there's no practical gain in that department.