Jo22 wrote on 2024-11-27, 07:48:

Quick update. The IBM JX computer had a black, slim chassis as well. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_JX […]
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Quick update.
The IBM JX computer had a black, slim chassis as well.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_JX

It's essentially an IBM Jr in a different packaging, with a real keyboard.
In Japan, the JX had been better known than in the west.

In Japan, that kind of design sells. As already mentioned by someone, look at the MSX.

One of the big reasons for beige boxes in the west was ironically the price. Given how expensive computers are, there was a massive prejudice against anything that could be conceived as making it look like 'a toy'. Systems cost USD 5k / DEM 10k and had to look the part. Deviations from this rule (think: PC Jr) were frequently commercial flops. Even at the utter bottom of the market, 8b home computers were primarily sold as educational and business tools, even if they were used for gaming by spotty teenagers. Take a look at the ZX81, a system optimized for cost so it was the first home computer <GBP100. Its 1kB of RAM wasn't even enough to hold a single screen full of text and the flat membrane 'key'board made typing agonizing. Yet is was supposed to be first and foremost a practical tool...

Apple (even in the early '80s) toyed with this stereotype - think the Big Brother advert - but firstly only attracted a limited demographic and then themselves succumbed to it (after ejecting Steve Jobs).

Don't even get me started on how ATX never had a standardized connector and layout for the front panel, or how SPDIF still has no source volume control outside of PCs for at least 30 years.

And here I'm fundamentally disagree with everything OP. There were bland and uninteresting looking hifi designs and fine and well-made PC cases. The aesthetics are different, for a long time PCs weren't meant to be the centerpiece of a living room, but once the home market, but once the home market became prevalent, you always had options.

you always had options.

.. so what would you consider an equivalent "option" to a Yamaha Hifi system. (regardless if you like their design or not). Excellent build quality, good materials, thoughtfull design, mostly works even 50 years later, sturdy knobs and excellent buttons, solid drives cages (I already agreed to the notion that early IBM XT, AT, AST and Olivettis were not too bad) ? Which mid 90es quality PC brand comes to mind imediately ...?

Ok, it isn't a PC, but Commodore tried bringing the Computer into the living room with a Hi-Fi aesthetic which resulted in the Commodore Amiga CDTV in 1991.

Aui wrote on 2024-11-30, 11:33:

you always had options.

.. so what would you consider an equivalent "option" to a Yamaha Hifi system. (regardless if you like their design or not). Excellent build quality, good materials, thoughtfull design, mostly works even 50 years later, sturdy knobs and excellent buttons, solid drives cages (I already agreed to the notion that early IBM XT, AT, AST and Olivettis were not too bad) ? Which mid 90es quality PC brand comes to mind imediately ...?

You were not replying to me, but IMHO, the higher end IBM PS/2 , Valuepoint and possibly some of their later series would qualify, IMHO. Other than issues due to capacitors and mechanical wear ON moving parts (like HDDs and fans), these things were solidly built, well designed and serviceable. Aesthetics are subjective and tend to be perceived differently over time, of course, but I think the PS/2 line is generally beautiful (except the fugly mice).

Well the PS2 line is certainly build sturdy and the modular design is good. And indeed IBM as the top tier brand had to show something for the high asking prices. Although I think the pinnacle for me here was the the AT. Not adopting the 386 but introducing all sorts of proprietary road bumps to the PS/2 line were probably all design decicions not made by engineers but rather by business people. And it was perhaps the beginning of the end for the original IBM PC. Although now that I think of it, the Thinkpad line (not a PC strictly speaking) was well designed in terms of quality build.

Aui wrote on 2024-11-30, 13:56:

Well the PS2 line is certainly build sturdy and the modular design is good. And indeed IBM as the top tier brand had to show something for the high asking prices. Although I think the pinnacle for me here was the the AT. Not adopting the 386 but introducing all sorts of proprietary road bumps to the PS/2 line were probably all design decicions not made by engineers but rather by business people. And it was perhaps the beginning of the end for the original IBM PC. Although now that I think of it, the Thinkpad line (not a PC strictly speaking) was well designed in terms of quality build.

I think I get what you mean, but if we stick to consistent "aesthetics"/design language , I find the PC/AT to be meh and drab compared to the PS/2 and Valuepoint lineups.

Additionally you did say

equivalent "option" to a Yamaha Hifi system

and

Which mid 90es quality PC brand comes to mind imediately ...?

The PC/AT (and any 286 based machine) was no spring chicken by even the early 90s.

Aui wrote on 2024-06-30, 00:17:

Yes, I guess your view is largely correct. The discrepancy is nevertheless amazing. Just saw this one a few days ago. […]
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Everybody who remained, well, became increasingly price conscious. 

Yes, I guess your view is largely correct. The discrepancy is nevertheless amazing. Just saw this one a few days ago.

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These sell for incredible money and yet, at its heart its just a tape drive, something that you would also use for your old C64. What is so amazing is, that the internals of computers are generally way more sophisticated than that of audio equipment, yet the "packing" always remained rudimentary. But I guess, before you designed a case like that for your new desktop brand, the cpu market would have moved on to the next gen.

Nice piece of audio gear ! Looks great !

Brightraven wrote on 2024-11-30, 12:19:

Ok, it isn't a PC, but Commodore tried bringing the Computer into the living room with a Hi-Fi aesthetic which resulted in the C […]
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Ok, it isn't a PC, but Commodore tried bringing the Computer into the living room with a Hi-Fi aesthetic which resulted in the Commodore Amiga CDTV in 1991.

Very nice for the era ! Cute low profile desktop case in black, with matching black monitor.

Aui wrote on 2024-06-27, 09:34:

Just recently I was looking at a some fine examples of older home stereo systems (just a random picture I found online - but thi […]
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Just recently I was looking at a some fine examples of older home stereo systems (just a random picture I found online - but this idea)

The attachment c5296b86-8335-49c4-9167-c523de3779cc.jpg is no longer available

And here I wondered, the sophistication in design (and execution) was always orders of magnitude higher than the typical PC cases. With your average PC case, you would cut your fingers on grated metal edges, cheap plastics, strange design solutions. Even consoles that were complete and suposed to sit beneath the TV and not modular (e.g. X-Box, Playstation etc) looked more like cheap plastic boxes.
I know some companies tried a little (some Sony Vaio models) and early Sharp and Hitachi home computers but overall its just a different world. Maybe some of the most recentapple products are slowly getting there but still not really.
So why did this classic home stereo design language never really worked with PC's ?

Because motherboards and components could not be separated into fake plastic boxes. Sorry but that Sony (like many of those type) were actually one unit made to look separate with hidden cables between parts
The Dell XPS series of the time had a good look at the time, like the Dell Studio XPS 9100. Not your beige or black case 😀
Am just rambling but nothing looks sweeter than mid-late 70's aluminum faced stereo gear imho... ok sorry just rambling...

@Horun

I'm not going to deny that the Aiwa XK-S9000 looks good, but the "Resonance damping wood base" really pops my balloon . I think I actually would have preferred meaningless, technobabbly marketing nuspeak.

I also like brushed aluminum faced gear. Hell, I admit it, I also like fake wood veneer (though probably not as much as Clint@LGR does) !

Furthermore, I also hate those fake separate looking plastic box audio "components". I hope that redeems me somewhat.

Brightraven wrote on 2024-11-30, 12:19:

Ok, it isn't a PC, but Commodore tried bringing the Computer into the living room with a Hi-Fi aesthetic which resulted in the C […]
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Ok, it isn't a PC, but Commodore tried bringing the Computer into the living room with a Hi-Fi aesthetic which resulted in the Commodore Amiga CDTV in 1991.

Am I the only one getting a NeXT ripoff vibe from this ? And I say this with absolutely no negativity.

Sorry but that Sony (like many of those type) were actually one unit made to look separate with hidden cables between parts

I dont argue that there were plenty of cheap audio racks, but there were ALSO high quality ones. But for 90es PCs such a brand seems to be missing.

The implication behind my question is of course that IF such a brand had existed, we would talk about it today and these pieces would be perhaps the most reliable and awesome museum pieces . Instead we a retrobrighting and remolding cheap plastics, replacing caps and I think the day when the last original CD Rom drives dies is not far ahead.

(instead I am thinking of something like the "Mercedes Benz" in Computers...)

Hi, if you think that PC/AT looked inellegant or boring, please have a look at PCs from E-Germany or the former eastern block.
They're quite a counter culture in terms of aestethics sometimes. 😉

Seriously, though, some designs aren’t bad.
The Poisk-1 is a keyboard computer like the Schneider Euro PC (or that 486 keyboard PC).

Source: Wikimedia

Source: Wikimedia

And then there's the Agat, an Apple II derivative.
Not a beige box.

Source: fbook

Or here, this blue comr.. fellow, the Apogee BK-01C.
It's based on Radio-86RK, a DIY computer built by radio amateurs.

Source: https://m.vk.com/wall-202150478_280

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Soviet_ … omputer_systems

Edit: Is it just me or does the Robotron EC 1834 has similar looks to Commodore PC-5 and PC-10?
Internals are different, of course. The Robotron is more advanced (no kidding).

Edit: A few more x86 keyboard PCs: https://www.computer-museum.ru/articles/personalnye-evm/937/

Edited.

Definitively love the Euro-PC. About once a year I am contemplating getting one, but I think chances are high to get one with severe battery damage so I always passed... but the design is def. good. I actually generally love the "wedge" keyboard Conputers starting with the ones like FM7, many MSX and Amiga an Co. These are actually very good designs in my opinion.

^Cool! I would like to get a Sharp MZ-1500 eventually.
It reminds me of the Sharp MZ-700, and I have a bit of a soft spot for my first computer.
I loved the shape of the keys and the keyboard layout for some reason.

Edit:

Definitively love the Euro-PC. About once a year I am contemplating getting one, but I think chances are high to get one with severe battery damage so I always passed...

If you got one, don't forget to run a copy of DCP, the Disc Control Program on it.
It's an unreal experience - the E-German DOS, being run on W-German hardware.. 😁
Reminds me of the beach simulation scene in the adventure game Frederik Pohl's Gateway, when the virtual reality collapses.

Jo22 wrote on 2024-12-01, 06:19:

there's the Agat, an Apple II derivative.
Not a beige box.

that picture - the photo definition itself (magazine scan i guess), the colors, the plastic shapes and style, the notion that users will program line charts.... it is so wonderfully of its time and place

Jo22 wrote on 2024-12-01, 06:46:

^Cool! I would like to get a Sharp MZ-1500 eventually. It reminds me of the Sharp MZ-700, and I have a bit of a soft spot for my […]
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^Cool! I would like to get a Sharp MZ-1500 eventually.
It reminds me of the Sharp MZ-700, and I have a bit of a soft spot for my first computer.
I loved the shape of the keys and the keyboard layout for some reason.

Edit:

Definitively love the Euro-PC. About once a year I am contemplating getting one, but I think chances are high to get one with severe battery damage so I always passed...

If you got one, don't forget to run a copy of DCP, the Disc Control Program on it.
It's an unreal experience - the E-German DOS, being run on W-German hardware.. 😁
Reminds me of the beach simulation scene in the adventure game Frederik Pohl's Gateway, when the virtual reality collapses.

Thanks for reminding me of that game, and that scene in particular. I have it indexed in my wetware alongside the "James T. Kirk talks a computer/AI into self-destructing" trope.

I think the Agat was actually the board computer of the spaceship orion...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LGo51rz-cBA&pp= … HJhaWxlcg%3D%3D

You are comparing the worst of something to the best of something.
Not all stereo equipment was as it is in your picture.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-12-04, 21:11:

You are comparing the worst of something to the best of something.
Not all stereo equipment was as it is in your picture.

Yeah, the Yorx, Soundesign, Candle, JIL, Citizen, Venturer, Garrard, etc stuff of the late 80s and early 90s (and probably earlier) was often, euh, dubious, to put it mildly.

I would call it "plastic fantastic", minus the "fantastic".

IMVHO