Perplexing. Doom seems to run like a golden thread throughout history.

I haven't watched the video yet (I'm at work) but always read it was the other way round.
Microsoft requested the port to show off their New Direct X technology
https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Doom95

Makes sense What better way to push their new OS as a gaming OS, not to mention get their new API accepted quicker.

I don't think that DirectX was born because somebody wanted to play Doom.

I think that somebody decided that Windows 95 should be able to play games, but they knew that the OS architecture was preventing that (not preventing, but made things slower/harder). They decided to make a "gaming" API so games would be easier to program. What would they need to put into the API?

So they got the hottest game at that time (Doom) and ported it to their OS, so they got a "killer-app" for their new OS and they got some ideas about what do they need for their new API.

(BTW, they already had WinG to support some kind of "direct output to video"... so some support for games was provided)

I highly recommend watching the video. It gave me the impression that Doom kick started it all. It also led to Bill Gates doing that Doom video.

Zup wrote on 2024-10-28, 05:57:

I think that somebody decided that Windows 95 should be able to play games, but they knew that the OS architecture was preventing that (not preventing, but made things slower/harder). They decided to make a "gaming" API so games would be easier to program. What would they need to put into the API?

So they got the hottest game at that time (Doom) and ported it to their OS, so they got a "killer-app" for their new OS and they got some ideas about what do they need for their new API.

That's what makes sense, and also from a corporate POV

Will watch the vid soon. But i also have read and heard that it was the other way around.
Initially the Doom95 was just a "windoom" demonstrating the WinG framework. It was all happening under windows 3.x. (Many of the earlier beta versions are for Win 3.x + WinG)
Then, when Windows 95 was right around the corner, they requested the windoom to be based on the WinG successor DirectX and work under Windows 95. And this is what we got.

GigAHerZ wrote on 2024-10-28, 10:18:

Will watch the vid soon. But i also have read and heard that it was the other way around.
Initially the Doom95 was just a "windoom" demonstrating the WinG framework. It was all happening under windows 3.x.
Then, when Windows 95 was right around the corner, they requested the windoom to be based on the WinG successor DirectX and work under Windows 95. And this is what we got.

Yep I’ve heard it being the other way round too. That’s why I was surprised by this video. They tried to port Doom to WinG framework but Carmack wasn’t happy with the port, so Alex put a team together a team (with no budget) to create DirectX so that Doom could be run properly. They also decided it would be the start of Microsoft’s framework for gaming. It was all done under hush hush. Alex really pushed for Microsoft to become a gaming company. In the end, Gates put his support behind it and agreed to do the Doom video.

zuldan wrote on 2024-10-28, 10:27:

In the end, Gates put his support behind it and agreed to do the Doom video.

Right, that one, too! Pretty funny one it was. 😁 (Somewhat gringey, too.)

Watched the great video, and I too understand it as DooM being the golden standard for proving that Windows can game, not the other way around (make DX just for DooM).

The goal to make Windows game good has been there always, but seems to have never been resourced or thought out deep enough.

And it amazed me how Alex also had to break the resourcing barrier himself without much official support beyond "yeah, you got it. Go do it. But sorry, no engineers for you"... so, he ended up contracting people out of his credit card. No wonder Bill heard the guy and respected him to the point of agreeing to do the silly DooM95 video.

What's also interesting, "Direct X1" was released as "Windows 95 Game SDK" and didn't feature Direct3D yet.
So Doom95 must have used DirectDraw rather, which was a spiritual successor to WinG.

Edit:

Watched the great video, and I too understand it as DooM being the golden standard for proving that Windows can game, not the other way around (make DX just for DooM).

Well, Fury³ for Windows 3.1 did use WinG and didn't look bad, either.
Then the were the various Sega PC titles (Ecco The Dolphin, Comix Zone etc).
Another classic was Creatures, I remember. Also available on Mac System 7.

Edit: There also was an both interesting and experimental time on Windows 95 that did pre-date DirectX.
Nvidia NV1 had used rectangles instead of triangles, which looked quite good, but was incompatible with Direct3D.

Sometimes I feel that DirectX had ended some potential creativity here and I wonder how the game 'industry' had continued to develop if DirectX hadn't happened.
Maybe my beloved 2D genres would have lasted longer? Possible, but unlikely.
Doom had happened and the situation wasn't reversible anymore.

Watched the vid now, too. Great information, was really interesting!

wbahnassi wrote on 2024-10-28, 10:58:

so, he ended up contracting people out of his credit card.

As i understood, he used "Microsoft's credit card". Employees get special credit card that can be used for reimbursement of different costs.
So he took a risk that maybe it will not be reimbursed, but in case of success, i don't think the money came from his pocket.

(I, too, as ex-MS employee have an American Express card with my name and Microsoft company name on it, though it's expired by now.)

GigAHerZ wrote on 2024-10-28, 11:12:

As i understood, he used "Microsoft's credit card". Employees get special credit card that can be used for reimbursement of different costs.
So he took a risk that maybe it will not be reimbursed, but in case of success, i don't think the money came from his pocket.

Yes, that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. And nice to see you here GigAHerZ. I was actually about to get a job with the DirectX team back in 2006, but logistic reasons prevented that, so the closest I got was DirectX MVP 😅

Jo22 wrote on 2024-10-28, 11:10:

Sometimes I feel that DirectX had ended some potential creativity here and I wonder how the game 'industry' had continued to develop if DirectX hadn't happened.
Maybe my beloved 2D genres would have lasted longer? Possible, but unlikely.
Doom had happened and the situation wasn't reversible anymore.

No, 32-bit consoles already started pushing (slow) 3d in 1993 before Doom came out. Playstation/32X/Saturn was 1994, and Nintendo milked SGI hype for what it's worth (either pre-rendered snes stuff or ultra64 specs), PowerVR began in 1992 and pivoted to pc 3d cards in 1995, so prospects overall were going to be realtime 3D graphics whether DirectX existed or not.

Also there's been 3D DirectX games shipping before Doom95 (even before the 1995 Odyssey disc soft-launch). Locus for example

zuldan wrote on 2024-10-28, 06:11:

I highly recommend watching the video. It gave me the impression that Doom kick started it all. It also led to Bill Gates doing that Doom video.

The fun part is that Gabe Newell led the team behind the first port (the one that used WinG), Alex St John IIRC led the Doom95 port which we eventually got.

Can't find any mention of Gabe Newell here...

chinny22 wrote on 2024-10-27, 22:29:

Makes sense What better way to push their new OS as a gaming OS, not to mention get their new API accepted quicker.

Yeah just thinking of two reasons:

1. During the hype/intentional confusion over whether Windows 95 was still DOS-"based" or not, having games continue to target DOS would be an embarrassment, so anything causing developers to hesitate to target Win32 needed to be resolved.
2. I assume, even then, transitioning everyone to NT was on Microsoft's roadmap, with DOS gaming being a huge impediment to that.

Not really. It was created to push Windows 95 sales up by promoting it as a "game-improving/boosting" OS. Using Doom to showcase this, is obviously the marketing technique.

Too bad Microsoft forced all game developers to focus on DirectX, instead of maintaining parallel development for DOS. (Initially we did have some games coming in both versions, though.)

Hi. I must admit I know little of all of this, so I try to keep quiet as much as possible.
What about Doom on OS/2 or Unix at the time, though? It's from 1994 and predates Doom 95?
Looking back, I get the feeling that Doom on desktop had (has) sort of a cult following, like Tetris used to have.
Every OS seemingly wants to have it in its repertoire, even a niche OS such as KolibriOS.
Maybe Doom porting used to be some sort of sports, a ritual or a ceremony for coders? A maturity exam? 🤷‍♂️

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/OS/2
https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Source_port

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/NEXTSTEP
https://doomwiki.org/wiki/SGI_Doom

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Linux_Doom
https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Solaris

It's also on almost every '90s game console. Doom64 is of course the only interesting port. 😀