VOGONS


First post, by gaffa2002

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Hello once again,
From time to time I try running this game with sound, CD audio and smooth framerate, but I was never able to get it running 100%, and that includes attempting with period correct hardware. I always blammed the system I was running it, so my last attempt was using PCEM and trying different CPU speed and video card combinations, but I always ended up having the same issues I get on real hardware regardless of configuration:

-If I run the game in a window, movement is not smooth and game speed is correct.
-If I run the game full screen (FAST) without the sync with monitor checked, game speed is correct, but lots of screen tearing and jerky movement
-If I run the game full screen (FAST) with the sync with monitor checked, game is smooth, but runs a bit faster at 70fps (as it uses 320x200@70hz for this mode). This was what I used back in the day and never knew I was playing the game faster than it was supposed to be, not to mention the sound seems to get a bit out of sync as the animations run a bit faster.
-If I run the game full screen (SMOOTH) without the sync with monitor checked, game runs at normal speed, but lots of screen tearing and some artifacts when the screen is scrolling (looks like some vertical stripes on screen). This gets better/worse by using slower/faster CPUs or slower video cards, but never gets solved.
-If I run the game full screen (SMOOTH) with the sync with monitor checked, game runs extremely fast even on a 486! The artifacts during scrolling get even worse in that mode, too.

I already tried many different system combinations in PCEM, plus real hardware (Athlon 750 + Geforce MX440, a Pentium 200 + Virge S3, and I clearly remember having the same problems on my Pentium 100 + Ati Rage II back in the day). It just...doesn't...work! I always have the same issues regardless of machine.
Did anyone ever run this game using the full screen (SMOOTH) mode (320x240@60hz) with sync to monitor enabled and it worked as intended by running at 60fps?

LO-RES, HI-FUN

My DOS/ Win98 PC specs

EP-7KXA Motherboard
Athlon Thunderbird 750mhz
256Mb PC100 RAM
Geforce 4 MX440 64MB AGP (128 bit)
Sound Blaster AWE 64 CT4500 (ISA)
32GB HDD

Reply 1 of 8, by gaffa2002

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Many views but no response, this is indeed a tough game to get working 😀.
Apologies for replying my own post, but I wanted to share some other findings I had with the game.
It seems the Full Screen (SMOOTH) has some kind of bug that prevents it from syncing with the monitor properly so if you select this option it goes full speed in most systems, not to mention the ugly graphical artifacts (like the scrolling has different speed between vertical lines). Sadly if you disable the sync option the game gets jittery and still has the glitches if your CPU is fast (meaning anything above a P90).
The ONLY configuration that I could set in PCEM that can run this mode at around 60fps and with smooth scrolling was with a Pentium Overdrive 83mhz using a Cirrus Logic GD-5434 for video as having a fast video card also makes the game go bonkers. With this system, the game was able to run at 64 fps (you can see by typing "framerate" while playing), and if enabling the sync with monitor option, with smooth scrolling. The only issue are the glitches that despite being very faint, still are noticeable.
There might be an even better setup for running this game, but I couldn't find it yet.

LO-RES, HI-FUN

My DOS/ Win98 PC specs

EP-7KXA Motherboard
Athlon Thunderbird 750mhz
256Mb PC100 RAM
Geforce 4 MX440 64MB AGP (128 bit)
Sound Blaster AWE 64 CT4500 (ISA)
32GB HDD

Reply 2 of 8, by auron

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i have not tested this game, but this actually might be the first win95 commercial game release so it's not surprising to hear it being troublesome. this game actually even predates directx. i have tested gex which is over a year newer, but still gave me trouble. made a topic about it once here: tearing in gex

Reply 3 of 8, by gaffa2002

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auron wrote on 2023-05-26, 11:35:

i have not tested this game, but this actually might be the first win95 commercial game release so it's not surprising to hear it being troublesome. this game actually even predates directx. i have tested gex which is over a year newer, but still gave me trouble. made a topic about it once here: tearing in gex

Correct, the engine used by Pitfall predates DirectX, in fact, Microsoft used some of it as basis for creating DirectX. There were quite a few games released during that "GAP" between Windows 95 release and DirectX becoming standard, mostly console ports that were supposed to show how capable Windows 95 was as a gaming platform.
It did its job, but looking in retrospect It's clear that the console versions were usually superior at least for 2D games, PCs just could not compete with the way consoles handled tiles and sprites by hardware.
GEX is one of those in my opinion, the game runs at 30fps instead of 60fps like the PS1 and Saturn versions, not to mention the screen tearing issue. At least this game is available on GOG to play in modern hardware but I'm not sure if it works in period correct hardware.
I used to own both Pitfall and GEX (one of the first big box games I had) and loved both of them, lucky for me I didn't know anything about vsync or framerates.

LO-RES, HI-FUN

My DOS/ Win98 PC specs

EP-7KXA Motherboard
Athlon Thunderbird 750mhz
256Mb PC100 RAM
Geforce 4 MX440 64MB AGP (128 bit)
Sound Blaster AWE 64 CT4500 (ISA)
32GB HDD

Reply 4 of 8, by vintageonthemoon

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i also had issues getting Pitfall: Mayan Adventure to work on one of my windows 98 SE builds, socket 478 pentium 4 2.8ghz, geforce 4 ti 4200 128-bit, Soundblaster Live! 5.1, 512mb ddr 400 ram, DX 8.1, playing them using daemon tools for virtual discs, the game will work fine at first but some times it freeze my computer and gets stuck on a music loop forces me to restart it (in windowed mode or full screen). i have no idea why it's such a problem, i have same problem with games like EWJ Special Edition and Toy Story. all of them are from 1996 very early win 95 titles that pre-dated DX, "Garfield: Caught in the Act" for PC however works perfectly fine in my P4 rig. that PC works perfectly fine with 90% i throw at it. at first i though it was soundcard problem, then a graphics card problem, then a DX 8 problem (since some games don't like DX 😎. however on my other win 98 rig, has socket 370 Pentium 3 1ghz with 3DFX Voodoo 3000, 256mb ram, turtle beach santa cruz sound card, all the games work on it perfectly fine, no freezes no black screen no audio loop. it might be that some eariler Windows games don't like alot of Ram, im still not sure

Reply 5 of 8, by leileilol

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Sounds like an nvidia problem. nvidia drivers doesn't like palette changes (slows down immensely) or switching into low resolutions

apsosig.png
long live PCem

Reply 6 of 8, by vintageonthemoon

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leileilol wrote on 2024-10-25, 11:24:

Sounds like an nvidia problem. nvidia drivers doesn't like palette changes (slows down immensely) or switching into low resolutions

You're right, it was a Nvidia problem. i tested Pitfall with ATI Radeon 9600 XT 128-bit AGP 8X card, works perfectly fine in full screen after setting the full screen sync and fast options, able to go back and forth from full screen to window mode without going black and freezing my computer. however ATI Catalyst 6.2 driver gave me issues on windows 98 SE, it was picked up kinda, but give me 2 warnnings of some installation error, 3D Acceleration not working and crashes when i try 3d game or 3d mark testing. i later found out ATI Catalyst 6.2 is 2005 driver thats meant for Windows 2000 and XP for better stability even though it still supports Windows 98/ME to some degree. however the older driver ATI Catalyst 4.2 works right away, no errors, picked everything up, the 3D Acceleration is finally working! im getting better experience from the Radeon then Nvidia. the only real down side is im losing table fog and 8-bit paletted textures, but 90% of the games that i own don't really require those features.

Reply 7 of 8, by dr.zeissler

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"smooth" was always to fast, I always used "fast" and checked "sync to monitor". If you have a good 2d accelerator an 166Mhz+ you will likely get a good experience.

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 8 of 8, by vintageonthemoon

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dr.zeissler wrote on 2025-03-12, 11:54:

"smooth" was always to fast, I always used "fast" and checked "sync to monitor". If you have a good 2d accelerator an 166Mhz+ you will likely get a good experience.

same here, i use to the same options cause my computer is too powerful and fast for those titles.

both for "Pitfall - The Mayan Adventure", "Earthworm Jim - Special Edition". other games like "Toy Story" and "Garfield - Chught in the Act" dont have those options but functions almost the same. ironically all these games originally sega genesis games ported to windows 95 in 1996, very early titles for windows 95 and early adaptors of Direct X with very little changes aside from high quality redbook audio due to CD use. all have window mode on default with option for full screen. i had success getting them to work on my retro build running windows 98 SE, Pentium 4 2.8 ghz 512mb of Ram. but after some testing the Nvidia Geforce 4200 ti 128-bit 8x and Geforce FX 5500, FX 5600 Ultra cards, there very soild for 3D (with table fog and 8-bit paletted texture support) and DOS games, but for older windows titles it was giving me a lot of problems. but after testing some ATI Readeon cards, 9200, 9250 and XT cards (XT currently my favorite card to use for retro gaming, its a bit faster then Geforce 4200 ti and can handle 2D and low resolutions without issues) works great. but losing table fog and 8-bit paletted texture support for 3D gaming.

the best middle ground is 3dfx voodoo 3000, i have retro rig with voodoo 3000 on Pentium III 1 ghz, 256mb of ram. it's ultimate 90's pc. on one hand it had full support for lower resultions, 2d, dos, 3d (with glide, table fog and 8-bit paletted texture support) but uses only 16mb of vram which means some games will struggle under 30fps, 2x agp 3.3v (need a socket 370 or older motherboards to get it working, i know there very few socket 478 motherboard that supports 3.3v agp like Asus p4s333-m with SiS chipset), hates anything higher then 800x600, runs super hot (the stock heatsink is almost useless, got a custom heatsink cooler with a fan cause the card design is different then more modern cards) and getting really expensive over the years.