Stretch wrote on 2024-10-03, 12:38:

Pac-Man All-Stars doesn't have a menu option to select the audio provider, and I don't see an ini file or reg entry either.

Some games which use the Miles Sound System detect what's available straight from the executable, and automatically select the option deemed as "best" (e.g. whatever the programmers specified). Sadly, not all of them have that nice in-game selection menu showcasing all the possible sound providers.

If you look at PacArena.exe in a Hex Editor, you'll see references to EAX 2.0, A3D 2.0 and so on. That's the main executable file, the other one is just a launcher.

I own Lego Island 2 and I found that Creative Labs EAX and EAX2 are found in LEGO Island 2.exe in a hex editor.
A Vogons post indicates that Starlancer supports EAX.

I did a web search for Msseax.m3d and Msseax2.m3d and listed the games that might support EAX.

I don't have these games so I'm not able to check them.

• Alice Madness Returns

• Civ III

• Dekaron Online

• Empire Earth Gold Edition

• Dark Age of Camelot

• Kohan II: Kings of War

• Might and Magic 6

• Panzers II

• Temple of Elemental Evil

• Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2002

• Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2003

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-09-29, 12:29:

Stretch wrote on 2024-09-29, 12:14:

Since JHexen, a source port, is on the list of games with EAX support, should IAS Quake2 Patch Beta With EAX Support!! also? The EAX provided is 1.x according to the text file included in the archive.

I'm on the fence with regards to source ports and fan-made projects like Thievery UT.

They were on the original list which we mirrored from Wikipedia, but I'm not sure if we want that stuff or just commercial, retail games to be on ours. I have no strong preference either way, it would just be more work to document all of that. Let me know what you guys think.

I vote to have them included.
Makes sense to have a single central location for all games official or not. Someone can just check the table and find which games will take advantage of their card.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-10-03, 10:32:

FYI, I've added the "ALchemy Support" column to the EAX games list on the Vogons Wiki. This should make it easier to discern games which are officially supported by Creative's ALchemy utility.

Previously, this support was only indicated in the notes section, which led to needless clutter. Now, you can filter ALchemy supported games by simply clicking on the arrows in that column.

Makes sense, good improvement!
While tidying it up maybe its worth adding 2 more columns' for A3d 1 and 2?
Not strictly EAX and checking A3D games is definitely out of scope for this thread but again nice to have in the same central location so you can compare which games support which API's.

IMHO Notes should just be used for things like what patch level a game gains/drops EAX or useful entries when you have to modify a config file or useful info like the Crysis entry.

This is all just my 2 cents and appreciate all the time and effort others have put in while I just sit back and reap the rewards.

Stretch wrote on 2024-10-03, 22:57:

I own Lego Island 2 and I found that Creative Labs EAX and EAX2 are found in LEGO Island 2.exe in a hex editor.
A Vogons post indicates that Starlancer supports EAX.

Thanks! I will add both of those.

I did a web search for Msseax.m3d and Msseax2.m3d and listed the games that might support EAX.
I don't have these games so I'm not able to check them.

Yeah, I have a few of those, but not all. In any case, good effort on the search, and the games can certainly be added to the "to test" list alongside the ones here.

chinny22 wrote on 2024-10-04, 00:21:

While tidying it up maybe its worth adding 2 more columns' for A3d 1 and 2?
Not strictly EAX and checking A3D games is definitely out of scope for this thread but again nice to have in the same central location so you can compare which games support which API's.

I thought about that but ultimately decided against it, because A3D is a separate API unrelated to DirectSound3D and EAX. For the record, I'm currently documenting A3D in the notes section simply because it's easy to check for that while testing games for EAX support. Eventually, I plan on using the notes to put together a separate "List of games with A3D support" page on the wiki where those games would have a more suitable home.

P.S.

On a somewhat related note, adding new columns to the wiki page is surprisingly difficult. The whole wikitable system is not very intuitive to work with.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-10-04, 02:47:

I thought about that but ultimately decided against it, because A3D is a separate API unrelated to DirectSound3D and EAX. For th […]
Show full quote

chinny22 wrote on 2024-10-04, 00:21:

While tidying it up maybe its worth adding 2 more columns' for A3d 1 and 2?
Not strictly EAX and checking A3D games is definitely out of scope for this thread but again nice to have in the same central location so you can compare which games support which API's.

I thought about that but ultimately decided against it, because A3D is a separate API unrelated to DirectSound3D and EAX. For the record, I'm currently documenting A3D in the notes section simply because it's easy to check for that while testing games for EAX support. Eventually, I plan on using the notes to put together a separate "List of games with A3D support" page on the wiki where those games would have a more suitable home.

P.S.

On a somewhat related note, adding new columns to the wiki page is surprisingly difficult. The whole wikitable system is not very intuitive to work with.

The table could always be renamed something like "List of games with EAX/A3D support" but understand where you are coming from and even the simple mention of A3D 1.0, A3D 2.0 in the notes is enough.
especially if adding a column isn't a trivial task.

According to this https://www.gog.com/forum/the_suffering_serie … nofficial_patch there is no EAX support in The Suffering series (just a placeholder?).
PS - also i can't find any difference with eax on/off in Blade of Darkness, but maybe because i'm using alchemy..

KainXVIII wrote on 2024-10-04, 08:35:

According to this https://www.gog.com/forum/the_suffering_serie … nofficial_patch there is no EAX support in The Suffering series (just a placeholder?).

While I'm not familiar with that game, I would be a bit weary of reports on GOG forums where players often use: a) modern Windows versions b) unofficial patches c) EAX wrappers and emulators. If this is confirmed by someone who can test the game on real EAX capable hardware using WinXP, I'd be happy to amend it.

PS - also i can't find any difference with eax on/off in Blade of Darkness, but maybe because i'm using alchemy.

I've generally had good success with ALchemy, but I did run into a few edge cases where it caused undesirable behavior. Again, I'm not familiar with that particular game, but if it has an EAX on/off setting, that's good enough to put it on the list. Even if the implementation might not be great.

Icewind Dale is a strange one. Officially supports environmental audio (EAX 1.0) like Baldur's Gate. I have ran it on XP and 98 with the Audigy 2 ZS drivers - VxD for 98 - and can't hear any difference at all versus having it switched off, while with Baldur's Gate 1/2 there is a night and day difference.

DrLucienSanchez wrote on 2024-10-04, 09:20:

Icewind Dale is a strange one. Officially supports environmental audio (EAX 1.0) like Baldur's Gate. I have ran it on XP and 98 with the Audigy 2 ZS drivers - VxD for 98 - and can't hear any difference at all versus having it switched off, while with Baldur's Gate 1/2 there is a night and day difference.

I've noticed that too, and with its sequel as well.

Both Icewind games do detect the presence of EAX capable hardware though. Without it, the "Environmental Effects" button is grayed out and cannot be turned on.

BTW, I just saw that Creative's EAX 2.0 patches for Unreal Tournament '99 are still hosted here. These add new reverb and occlusion effects to several deathmatch and CTF maps. To get the enhanced EAX support, you need to install three patches in total: uteaxsys.zip, uteaxdm.zip and uteaxctf.zip. In case anyone's wondering about the EAX version of this patch, we know that occlusion was first introduced in EAX 2.0 according to Creative. And here's an excerpt from the relevant readme files where occlusion effects are mentioned:

EAX Library patch readme.txt wrote:

Unreal Tournament includes support for hardware accelerated 3D audio. To enable EAX in Unreal Tournament, you need a Sound Blaster Live! or an EAX compatible audio card.

EAX Deathmatch Levels enhancement readme.txt wrote:

The Deathmatch enhancement download will install new EAX Library files for the 24 original Deathmatch levels. […]
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The Deathmatch enhancement download will install new EAX Library files for the 24 original Deathmatch levels.

Highlights:

Marvel at the acoustic contrasts between the vast hall and the tight passages in Liandri Central Core. Hear the sounds of gunfire obstructed by the pillars as you duck and dive around Pressure. Take advantage of EAX's superior 3D audio cues to pinpoint your opponent as you snipe from the ledge in Deck-16, but be careful not to fall into the green slime - if you fall in, sounds are blocked out as the corrosive liquid seeps into your eardrums!

Listen to the realistically long and rich reverberation in the main hall of the Conveyer level, and the way that sounds are muffled (using EAX occlusions effects) by the walls in the mazes of corridors that make up Orion's Barricade and Peak Monastery.

Pay careful attention to the effects used in Koo's Galleon, giving the ship a very distinctive 'wooden' sound. Similarly, the acoustics of reverberant metal pipes in Fetid Sewers are realistically modelled, as are the great stone halls of the palace in Gothic.

Hide out in the open crates in Oblivion and Stalwart, and listen to the muffled sounds of battle raging outside your refuge. Be warned, though, if you get caught you'll be like a fish in a barrel! For 'out-of-this-world' effects, stand on the roof of Xan's ship in Hyperblast, or jump between the three towers of Morpheus.

The other enhanced levels are Codex of Wisdom, Course][, Fractal Reactor, Grinder, Morbias][, Phobos Moon, Pyramid, Stalwart XL, Tempest, Turbine, Ice Station Zeto.

EAX enhanced Capture the Flag levels readme.txt wrote:

The Capture the Flag enhancement download will install new EAX Library files for the 9 original Capture The Flag levels. […]
Show full quote

The Capture the Flag enhancement download will install new EAX Library files for the 9 original Capture The Flag levels.

Highlights:

Check out the way sound rolls across the huge vistas and echoes round the stone fortresses in LavaGiant. The ever popular Facing Worlds features similar effects, but don't fall through the gaping chasms into the void…

Hear for yourself the acoustic contrasts between the vast, echoing sub-pens and tight, noisy tubes that make up November - don't forget to listen out for what happens when you go for a swim!

Try taking the rooftop pathway between the flag rooms in Dreary Outpost, and hear the sounds of battle reverberating round the four great hallways. Defend your flag in Eternal Caves, and check out the long early reflections as noise bounces off the distant high walls. Contrast this to the acoustics of the warren of caverns separating the two flag areas.

Our experts used all their cunning to design the lifelike reverb in the twisting passages of Niven Experimental Lab (don't forget to try the underwater route). Hide out in a corridor in the Coret Facility, and you'll hear muffled gunfire emanating from the map's maze of chambers and passages.

The reverberant tubes of The Last Command, and the cold stone rooms of Gauntlet complete this set of EAX effects for Epic's original Capture the Flag levels.

From what I can tell, Creative released these patches in cooperation with Epic back in the day. Here's an old article from Gamespot which reported on this.

Is it possible to make reverb work in Alice on period correct pc? Because in win10 with alchemy game console shows this

KainXVIII wrote on 2024-10-06, 21:51:

Is it possible to make reverb work in Alice on period correct pc? Because in win10 with alchemy game console shows this

Works fine under Win98 with an Audigy 2 using VxD drivers. The game auto-detected EAX2 on startup, and set it up on its own.

Might be another case of games from that time not working 100% correctly with WDM drivers and/or ALchemy. Baldur's Gate 2 and Need for Speed 3 are two other examples. I've added a note to the wiki regarding Alice.

Pity, i think the only thing that Alchemy do in Alice on my machine is some kinda of surround'ish sound added, but no reverb (compared to Miles option).
PS - also same situation in Hitman: Blood Money if i remember correctly..

I can confirm, after trying this just now, that no reverb is enabled for Alice on Windows 10. Alchemy picks it up automatically, you set to EAX2, it appears to work as the positional sound is fine with the stone moving back and forth on the first level, but Reverb No show in the console, this is with EAX and EAX2, and I tried A3D as well.

I wonder if anything can be done with that (via mad hacking skillz) 😅

KainXVIII wrote on 2024-10-04, 08:35:

According to this https://www.gog.com/forum/the_suffering_serie … nofficial_patch there is no EAX support in The Suffering series (just a placeholder?).

So I took a look at the two games from The Suffering series (GOG versions). Apparently, GOG ships the first one with the IndirectSound wrapper, which I deleted, as I'm testing it on WinXP using real hardware. The game's configuration utility correctly detected the 128 hardware voices on my X-Fi Titanium, and it allowed me to tick the "Enable EAX" checkbox:

There's also an "Environmental Audio" setting under in-game audio options, which was turned on by default on my system. Now, I can't tell if/how the game actually uses the capabilities of EAX hardware, but the developers did include the proper checks at the very least. The second game uses the same configuration utility as shown above, but it lacks the in-game "Environmental Audio" setting.

BTW, while working on the Vogons wiki EAX list, I found a couple of interesting pages that were archived. Most notably, the Sound Blaster Gaming page and the EAX Featured Games list (game selection varies by archival date). Some of these contain interviews with the developers, who then describe how EAX was used in their games. For example, here's are a few tidbits from the Thief: Deadly Shadows developer interview:

Stealthy Sounds in Thief: Deadly Shadow wrote:

Q3. The previous versions of Thief had a very advanced sound system. What is new in Thief: Deadly Shadows and what features were […]
Show full quote

Q3. The previous versions of Thief had a very advanced sound system. What is new in Thief: Deadly Shadows and what features were brought over to this version?

Mark: There are three main points in regard to audio engine enhancements and additions: First, the sound propagation system is far more robust, and by the player's experience will seem more accurate and true-to-life when listening for sounds or trying to maintain a low profile and not alert hostiles to their presence. Second, the use of Creative EAX 4.0 ADVANCED HD's multiple environments. Thief: Deadly Shadows provides a useful world for this technology in that the player often finds themselves hiding in a small passageway or around a corner while listening in to a conversation or monitoring other sounds from another room. Last, and possibly the most significant, is the addition of sound effects linked with the Havok physics system. Throwing objects to distract or mislead hostiles, knocking objects over (perhaps unintentionally!) and unexpected emergent situations all add to the sense of realism and player immersion.

Q6. Is there any place in game or level that we should check out to really hear the effects?

Mark: Three particular environments immediately come to mind: the sewer tunnels of Auldale Plaza, the Wieldstrom Museum, and the incredibly spooky Shalebridge Cradle. I find the first two a nice contrast between tight, claustrophobic spaces, and expansive rooms that will make the player feel small as they make their way through and hear an approaching guard from afar. The Shalebridge Cradle leans more toward the latter of the two, except that this level in particular will have the hair on the back of your neck standing up with its excellent mix of both audio and visual horror.

Makes for an interesting read. There are a bunch of other developer interviews on that page as well. I've added some of them to the wiki page as reference links.

KainXVIII wrote on 2024-10-07, 09:03:

I wonder if anything can be done with that (via mad hacking skillz) 😅

Like most older games, it uses a text file for config info/settings, so changing the text in the file for sound settings should enable it, as that's how you did it back in the day, when the settings didn't auto-config properly.

RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2024-10-09, 10:56:

KainXVIII wrote on 2024-10-07, 09:03:

I wonder if anything can be done with that (via mad hacking skillz) 😅

Like most older games, it uses a text file for config info/settings, so changing the text in the file for sound settings should enable it, as that's how you did it back in the day, when the settings didn't auto-config properly.

Yeah, that's what i tried in the first place, but can't find anything related to reverb in my cfg file
upd - but i found (by selection method) s_reverb command in game console, will try to enable it and see if anything changes..

1// Cvars
2//
3seta s_loadas8bit "0"
4seta s_speaker_type "3"
5seta r_mode "17"
6seta r_lastValidRenderer "NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970/PCIe/SSE2"
7seta vid_xpos "0"
8seta vid_ypos "0"
9seta cg_cameradist "128.000000"
10seta name "Player"
11seta r_fullscreen "0"
12seta s_musicvolume "0.800000"
13seta s_volume "1.000000"
14seta s_khz "44"
15seta s_milesdriver "eax2"
16seta sensitivity "6.459604"

upd2 - yes, after putting seta s_reverb "1" command in config file reverb now shows as enabled in game console (but i failed to hear any difference 🤣)

@Joseph_Joestar do YOU hear any reverb effects on your machine? How its compared to Miles option? And if yes, where specifically on level i can test it