Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-06-24, 07:49:

On the plus side, I managed to get the fog working in NFS3 on Radeon cards:

Confirmed, great stuff!

One thing though, I gave that NFS4 modern patch dx7a.dll a go with NFS4 and noticed it doesn't fix the blurry text issue but did offer high resolutions. Then I went back to NFS3 modern patch dx7a.dll, which has newer timestamp than the one in NFS4 modern patch to double check and noted that the text was fixed... but I also still had high resolutions available. Remember when I said NFS4 tops at 1024x768 on my system? I may have goofed 😆

Sombrero wrote on 2024-06-24, 10:56:

One thing though, I gave that NFS4 modern patch dx7a.dll a go with NFS4 and noticed it doesn't fix the blurry text issue but did offer high resolutions. Then I went back to NFS3 modern patch dx7a.dll, which has newer timestamp than the one in NFS4 modern patch to double check and noted that the text was fixed... but I also still had high resolutions available. Remember when I said NFS4 tops at 1024x768 on my system? I may have goofed 😆

Cheers, I just checked the dx7a.dll from the NFS3 Modern Patch and it does indeed work fine with NFS4, providing proper fog, higher resolutions and sharper fonts. I've updated my mini guide to recommend that instead.

Now we have both games working flawlessly under Win98 at high resolutions, with functional fog and sharper fonts, without needing a Voodoo card. As a bonus, NFS4 no longer crashes with Nvidia drivers 45.23 nor with ATi Catalyst 6.2. I just tested both. 😀

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-06-24, 07:49:

I figured I'd tag you again for the most recent NFS3 fog restoration. 😁 The game visuals now look great on Radeon cards, with high resolutions available if desired.

That's awesome, thank you!
Fun fact: I just installed NFS 3 & 4 on a Radeon X800XT PC, so this comes in very handy! 😁

I found two more games that use paletted textures. Let's start with Ultima IX.

Graphics cards tested:

• 3DFX Voodoo3 2000 - using 3DFX reference drivers version 1.07.00
• Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 - using Nvidia reference drivers version 45.23
• ATi Radeon X800 GTO - using ATi Catalyst reference drivers version 6.2

Games tested:

• Ultima IX - retail CD version + official patch 1.18f

Ultima IX configuration utility

As far as I can tell, Ultima IX only allows paletted textures to be used in Glide mode. The intended use case is to improve performance on older 3DFX cards (e.g. Voodoo 1 and Voodoo Rush). Here's an excerpt from the readme:

Ultima IX Readme.txt wrote:

3. Texture Formats ============================ […]
Show full quote

3. Texture Formats
============================

Ultima IX: Ascension supports 3 different texture formats: 8-bit, 16-bit, and S3 Texture Compression.

8-bit is supported primarily by the Glide API for use with the 3dfx Voodoo family of chipsets. These cards also support 16-bit textures. 16-bit textures look better, but cause the game to run slower. 8-bit textures also require less hard drive space to install. If you have a Voodoo card, we suggest running with 8-bit textures.

Most Direct3D cards require the use of either 16-bit textures, or the S3 Texture Compression textures. 16-bit requires more hard drive space than S3TC. However, S3TC runs more slowly in many cases, because the textures must be decompressed before being displayed. Some Direct3D cards support hardware acceleration of this decompression, which makes the S3TC actually run faster on those cards than the 16-bit textures. Specifically, the S3 Savage 4 supports S3TC in hardware. If you have this card, we recommend installing the Compressed Textures. Otherwise, you should install the 16-bit textures.

You should not run the game in Direct3D with 8-bit textures.

According to the readme, 16-bit textures look better (and compressed textures look best) so 8-bit textures should only be used for performance reasons in this game.

Metro Police apparently uses 8bit textures
https://sourceforge.net/p/dxwnd/discussion/ge … c1/?page=1#3e5c

Next up is Wargasm (lol at that name).

Graphics cards tested:

• 3DFX Voodoo3 2000 - using 3DFX reference drivers version 1.07.00
• Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 - using Nvidia reference drivers version 45.23
• ATi Radeon X800 GTO - using ATi Catalyst reference drivers version 6.2

Games tested:

• Wargasm - retail CD version + official patch 2

Wargasm configuration utility

Although it looks like you can select 8-bit textures on the Radeon X800, attempting to do so will fail, as the checkbox won't stick. On both the Voodoo 3 and the GeForce 4 you can select that texture format normally. Once again, the intended use case for 8-bit textures is to improve performance on older 3DFX cards. Here's an excerpt from the game's readme:

Wargasm Readme.txt wrote:

3Dfx VoodooGraphics ------------------- Some texture loss when using 16 bit textures. 8 bit palettised is recommended. […]
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3Dfx VoodooGraphics
-------------------
Some texture loss when using 16 bit textures. 8 bit palettised is recommended.

3Dfx VoodooRush
---------------
Some texture loss when using 16 bit textures. 8 bit palettised is recommended. Running Wargasm from desktop resolutions in excess of 1024x768 may result in the machine hanging. May cause slow response from the mouse in game.

So this game also falls into the category where selecting 8-bit textures provides improved performance at the cost of visual quality. Also of interest might be the fact that Wargasm specifically uses Vertex Fog, and displays that information in the configuration utility.

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2024-09-17, 14:09:

Metro Police apparently uses 8bit textures
https://sourceforge.net/p/dxwnd/discussion/ge … c1/?page=1#3e5c

I can't find any info on that title, not even a Wikipedia page.

What's the full name of the game? Is there a page somewhere describing it?

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-09-17, 14:20:

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2024-09-17, 14:09:

Metro Police apparently uses 8bit textures
https://sourceforge.net/p/dxwnd/discussion/ge … c1/?page=1#3e5c

I can't find any info on that title, not even a Wikipedia page.

What's the full name of the game? Is there a page somewhere describing it?

Head to the page I linked and turn behind 1 pages (from page 2 to page 1)

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2024-09-17, 15:23:

Head to the page I linked and turn behind 1 pages (from page 2 to page 1)

I took a look and it's too much effort for me to test that game because of this:

The distribution of the game outside of Germany was impossible (although there are rumors of a French version) - it is initially installed only on German (!) Windows. If we add to this the presence of Laserlock protection (also very buggy in this game

If someone else can test it and post info where paletted texture use is referenced in the documentation or in-game options, I will add it to the wiki. The two screenshots on the page that you linked are not conclusive enough.

The game is entered on MobyGames: https://www.mobygames.com/game/41546/metro-police/
I don't think it worth playing though according to the reviews.

villeneuve wrote on 2024-09-18, 01:06:

The game is entered on MobyGames: https://www.mobygames.com/game/41546/metro-police/
I don't think it worth playing though according to the reviews.

This game is available to buy 7.99 + transport (1 in stock):
https://www.amazon.de/Metro-Police/dp/B0029IBBT0

About Rage Pro / Rage XL OpenGL 8 bit palleted texture
GLinfo shares information that GL_EXT_paletted_texture is supported, what is the difference with Quake2 GL_EXT_shared_texture_palette vs GL_EXT_paletted_texture?

What other game i can test with OpenGL paletted texture and how to enable it in the game?

marxveix wrote on 2024-09-25, 11:59:

About Rage Pro / Rage XL OpenGL 8 bit palleted texture
GLinfo shares information that GL_EXT_paletted_texture is supported, what is the difference with Quake2 GL_EXT_shared_texture_palette vs GL_EXT_paletted_texture?

Based on this documentation GL_EXT_shared_texture_palette requires GL_EXT_paletted_texture in order to work. I don't have any further insight other than what's written there.

What other game i can test with OpenGL paletted texture and how to enable it in the game?

With the information that's currently available, it's mostly games which use the Quake and Quake 2 engine. For example, SiN, Heretic II and Kingpin. They are all listed on the relevant wiki page. You usually enable paletted textures from the video options menu, though that varies by game, and some enable it automatically if detected. If it works, the game's console log will show that it's enabled. Here's an example from Kingpin:

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-09-25, 12:11:

Based on this documentation GL_EXT_shared_texture_palette requires GL_EXT_paletted_texture in order to work. I don't have any f […]
Show full quote

marxveix wrote on 2024-09-25, 11:59:

About Rage Pro / Rage XL OpenGL 8 bit palleted texture
GLinfo shares information that GL_EXT_paletted_texture is supported, what is the difference with Quake2 GL_EXT_shared_texture_palette vs GL_EXT_paletted_texture?

Based on this documentation GL_EXT_shared_texture_palette requires GL_EXT_paletted_texture in order to work. I don't have any further insight other than what's written there.

What other game i can test with OpenGL paletted texture and how to enable it in the game?

With the information that's currently available, it's mostly games which use the Quake and Quake 2 engine. For example, SiN, Heretic II and Kingpin. They are all listed on the relevant wiki page. You usually enable paletted textures from the video options menu, though that varies by game, and some enable it automatically if detected. If it works, the game's console log will show that it's enabled. Here's an example from Kingpin:

Thanks, i check some other driver version also RagePro @ OpenGL paletted textures and next is Rage128Pro & OpenGL.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-09-17, 15:44:

If someone else can test it and post info where paletted texture use is referenced in the documentation or in-game options, I will add it to the wiki. The two screenshots on the page that you linked are not conclusive enough.

Palleted:

Non-palleted:

Behaviour changes according to the GPU you use. There is no option to enable or disable it, nor did I find any useful documentation on this game. On modern wrappers, enabling/disabling palleted textures gives the same effect.

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2024-10-06, 11:01:

Behaviour changes according to the GPU you use. There is no option to enable or disable it, nor did I find any useful documentation on this game. On modern wrappers, enabling/disabling palleted textures gives the same effect.

Looks good. Added now, thanks!

I picked up an AMD R7 250 recently and I wanted to test its retro gaming capabilities. The results kinda surprised me. I've tested this card under WinXP using Catalyst 14.4 drivers as well as under Win7 x64 using Adrenalin 2020 Edition 21.3.1 drivers. During the tests, the drivers were at their default settings, with no additional tweaks applied or any third-party utilities used.

Graphics cards tested:

• AMD Radeon R7 250

Games tested:

• Final Fantasy VIII Demo - you can download the free demo from here
• Thief II: The Metal Age - retail CD version with the latest official patch 1.18 applied

Final Fantasy VIII configuration program

Unsurprisingly, this card doesn't support paletted textures. In-game, the menu colors look washed out, but otherwise, the FF8 Demo renders quite well. No artifacts, lines or any other issues that are common on newer Nvidia cards. And that's on Win7 x64, using drivers from 2021.

Thief II Mission 11: Precious Cargo

What really surprised me was that table fog support works under both WinXP and Win7 on this card! This is in contrast to Nvidia cards which only have table fog functionality under WinXP. Note that the lack of 16-bit dithering causes visible color banding, but that's expected from all graphics cards which use unified shaders (DX10 and above).

BTW, if someone has a newer AMD card, I'd be curious to see if they still support table fog under Win7/10/11. To test this, you need the retail CD version of Thief 2 + official patch 1.18. Digital versions from GOG/Steam are unsuitable for this test since they integrate fan-made fixes by default. Also, you may need to set the affinity of thief2.exe to one core, or else the game might crash.

Nvidia can bother checking that their w-based fog vertex coordinates don't work. Table fog is supported on Nvidia to this day, but it doesn't work. You can make it work by making an external hook to the driver over the vertices processing, and changing the values, DDRawCompat and DxWnd use this mechanism.

Table fog reportedly works (ed at least) on the AMD 400 series card on Windows 10 (at least): https://github.com/narzoul/DDrawCompat/issues … mment-323608448

Space Bunnies Must Die by Pulse Entertainment uses Palletized textures when available.

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2024-12-08, 17:17:

Space Bunnies Must Die by Pulse Entertainment uses Palletized textures when available.

Any screenshots that can be used as reference?

Also, do paletted textures improve the visual quality (e.g. like in Final Fantasy VIII) or reduce the visual quality (e.g. like in Quake 2) when used in that game? Or are they just there to improve performance, and don't affect visual quality at all (e.g. like in Hexen 2)?