VOGONS


Reply 20 of 81, by aazard

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Horun wrote on 2024-08-28, 03:14:
aazard wrote on 2024-08-28, 01:25:
This is freely distributed by dev it appears, see: https://ranish.sourceforge.net/ […]
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This is freely distributed by dev it appears, see: https://ranish.sourceforge.net/

Horun wrote on 2024-08-25, 04:06:

First readable text when hexed is "Need 80386 or better CPU", from Part.exe starting at 00000CB0h

2002-06-09: v2.44beta. Earlier versions are still available, including 2.40 stable (2001-02-08), and 2.37 (1998-09-15), runs on 8086.

v2.37: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/ranish/par … anager-2.37.zip
32312027950_2f279b7322_z.jpg

That is great ! I have the original Ranish 2.37.12 (from 1998) from Ranish old website (including Czech, Dutch, French, German, Italian, Russian, Spanish, Swedish versions IIRC) in my archives.
If it does run on 8086 that would be great ! Appears that link is source code. Let me go find my collection....will post it.

thank you

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 21 of 81, by aazard

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I had hoped to find this little project pre-made, but I am well up to task. I will start a github repo shortly.

My main concern is.... "target media" .. as I'm 99% sure I need to stay inside 720kb to allow "nearly all" systems to use it (what "PC Compatible" isnt compatible with 720kb 3.5"? floppies, if any)

and i'm 99.99% sure DMF format does not exist for 720kb/1.2mb floppies (so no "DMF 840kb" 720kb floppies)

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 22 of 81, by soggi

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DaveDDS wrote on 2024-08-28, 02:28:

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

A bit OT...

I took the time to read through your pages and also found your very personal "2019" article - great to see you made it and got back into life! Thanks for sharing your stuff (f.e. your "retirement" project), although I'm not a programmer - but it's hopefully useful to others.

kind regards
soggi

Vintage BIOSes, firmware, drivers, tools, manuals and (3dfx) game patches -> soggi's BIOS & Firmware Page

soggi.org on Twitter - inactive at the moment

Reply 23 of 81, by aazard

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BOOTMGR (multi-BOOT ManaGeR) — Small multi-OS boot manager with low resource requirements 6kb
https://www.bttr-software.de/products/bootmgr/#down
bootmgr3.gif
Sees: FAT12/16/32, NTFS, HPFS
bootmgr1.gif

Last edited by aazard on 2024-08-29, 04:19. Edited 2 times in total.

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 24 of 81, by aazard

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Horun wrote on 2024-08-28, 03:14:
aazard wrote on 2024-08-28, 01:25:
This is freely distributed by dev it appears, see: https://ranish.sourceforge.net/ […]
Show full quote

This is freely distributed by dev it appears, see: https://ranish.sourceforge.net/

Horun wrote on 2024-08-25, 04:06:

First readable text when hexed is "Need 80386 or better CPU", from Part.exe starting at 00000CB0h

2002-06-09: v2.44beta. Earlier versions are still available, including 2.40 stable (2001-02-08), and 2.37 (1998-09-15), runs on 8086.

v2.37: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/ranish/par … anager-2.37.zip
32312027950_2f279b7322_z.jpg

That is great ! I have the original Ranish 2.37.12 (from 1998) from Ranish old website (including Czech, Dutch, French, German, Italian, Russian, Spanish, Swedish versions IIRC) in my archives.
If it does run on 8086 that would be great ! Appears that soundforge link is source code. Let me go find my collection....will post it.

is this the English v2.37?:
https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/fr … -html/part.html

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 25 of 81, by aazard

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Slight related aside about "base boot image" ... CHAT GTP constantly contradicts itself, when used to clarify research 🙁
These appear my options, does anyone have any points to make as to why I should not default to minimal sized option?

8088/16-Bit Supporting DOS's considered:
MS-DOS 6.22 appears smallest (but issues distributing, M$ product, revert to recent open sourced MS-DOS 4.x is closest option) ... 100kb used sounds "sweet"
PC-DOS 7.1 Rev 0 BLD134 has same issue (owned by IBM).. and is "HUGE" in comparison at 138kb.
FreeDOS 1.3, is my least "redistribution issues" option, 118kb is used "not bad" ... it also includes "high" memory management in kernel (no need for HIMEM.SYS??)

Minimal Sized Boot Disks: MS-DOS 6.22 vs PC-DOS 7.1 Rev 0 BLD134 vs FreeDOS 1.3
- AS ANSWERED BY CHAT-GTP .. removed what appeared to be obviously wrong info 🙁


Memory Usage, Summary:

  • MS-DOS 6.22: 45-50 KB
  • FreeDOS 1.3: 40-50 KB
  • IBM PC-DOS 7.0: 50-60 KB
  • IBM PC-DOS 7.1: 60-70 KB

Note: The exact memory usage can vary based on the specific configuration, system drivers, and environment settings. For use on an 8088-powered XT PC, MS-DOS 6.22 or FreeDOS 1.3 would generally be more efficient in terms of memory usage compared to the later versions of IBM PC-DOS.

Summary of DOS LFN Support on 8088 - Supports LFN on 8088 (with potential limitations):

  • DR-DOS 7.03: Can support LFN, but may require specific configurations and may not perform optimally on an 8088 system.
  • IBM PC-DOS 7.1: Supports LFN, but using this on an 8088 might face performance constraints.
  • FreeDOS 1.3: Supports LFN, but practical usage on an 8088 system might be challenging.

Summary of space used/remaining on 720kb floppy, Minimum Sized Boot Floppy with LBA:

  • MS-DOS 6.22 (with WDCTRL.SYS): ~280 KB to ~290 KB total; ~430 KB to ~440 KB remaining *with WDCTRL.SYS
  • DR-DOS 7.03: ~278 KB total; ~442 KB remaining
  • FreeDOS 1.3: ~237 KB total; ~483 KB remaining
  • IBM PC-DOS 7.1 Rev 0 BLD134: ~322 KB total; ~398 KB remaining

FreeDOS 1.3 has the smallest total space usage, allowing for the most remaining capacity on a 720 KB floppy disk. However, MS-DOS 6.22 remains very efficient and is still among the smallest in terms of total space used.

Last edited by aazard on 2024-08-29, 02:19. Edited 17 times in total.

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 26 of 81, by DaveDDS

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aazard wrote on 2024-08-28, 03:09:

Beyond fantastic, if you have a complete list, I am happy to add it.

I've not created/maintained such a list of "everything" - over 40+ years of
development, some of it was for DDS products and reasonable well tracked and
documented, but a lot was various internal tools, and much "just for fun"..
and I never thought about publishing those.

But a fair bit of information is availle:

= MySide->Downloads shows much that I've currently got available.
++ Don't forget to look at "older downloads from my previous site"
- (dunfield.com expired while I was hospitalized, someone else register
- that domain and kindy offeres to rent it back to me (I've not done so)
++ Also see "List of: individual files" within the various .ZIPs
- can be helpful if trying to find documents etc. for a specific thing

=MySite->SourceCode is contains descriptions for a lot of it as well.
++ "FILES.TXT details all the individual files contained here.

I've not attempted to "properly documented" / "nicely present" the source code
files for stuff I'd previously released as a product or downloadable packge.
You would need to download those to get that information,0

="DavesOldComputers"->"DOS widgets"(near bottom) also has "a bunch".

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Reply 27 of 81, by DaveDDS

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soggi wrote on 2024-08-28, 03:45:

I took the time to read through your pages and also found your very personal "2019" article - great to see you made it and got back into life!

Thanks, what I went (am still going) through was for me a major "perception
changer" about life and what truly important.. Which was a good part of the
reason I decided to...

>Thanks for sharing your stuff (f.e. your "retirement" project), although I'm not a programmer - but it's hopefully useful to others.

In todays world where (except for in very cool forums such as here on "Vogons")
anything technical that's already shipped is considered by most to be "too old
to be useful", a lot of the material is "obsolete" in todays industry - but I do hope
that it may be useful to some for "learning purposes"!

I still play with stuff like this a lot, but that seems to be an ever shrinking
segment of people (sigh)!

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Last edited by DaveDDS on 2024-08-30, 03:07. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 28 of 81, by oso2k

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Also from Dave Dunfield, I'd recommend ImageDisk (IMD) which is helpful for "extra raw" backups of (potentially damaged) floppies. Not sure where the latest is but I've picked it up here (http://dunfield.classiccmp.org/dos/) in the past.

16-bit web browser MicroWeb - https://github.com/jhhoward/MicroWeb

16-bit gopher web browser Gopherus - https://gopherus.sourceforge.net/

SvarDOS (small FreeDOS distro) - http://svardos.org/

EtherDFS (network drive) - http://etherdfs.sourceforge.net/

ethflop (network floppy) - https://ethflop.sourceforge.net/

mTCP NetDrive (network drive) - https://www.brutman.com/mTCP/mTCP_NetDrive.html

Reply 30 of 81, by aazard

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oso2k wrote on 2024-08-28, 19:57:

I saw the reference to Costa GUI.

Maybe Dunfield's PKTSHELL (http://dunfield.classiccmp.org/dos/pktshell.zip) or KIDSMENU (as source in https://dunfield.themindfactory.com/dnld/sc/MCSAMPLE.ZIP) might be of interest.

I am very interested in suggestions/ideas.

As I mentioned, one of my main concerns is "space", a hypothetical 720kb boot floppy (lets assume it used MS-DOS 6.22, which I can not redistribute but is SMALL, is used) this leave us with 620kb to work in.

Even under the best of situations I "might" be able to get 11 "PE useful" applications/tools (total guess) on it... "if/maybe"

I would like package to span as few disks as possible, ideally being a 1 (or 2) floppy/image package.

My experience with the gambit of XT's ability to access 720kb media is "flaky" at best (I am "assuming" that 99.98% of XT/8088 systems can access a 720kb floppy)

/

My "other main concern" is ease of use ("any one can use it" mentality)

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 31 of 81, by aazard

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oso2k wrote on 2024-08-28, 19:57:

I saw the reference to Costa GUI.

Maybe Dunfield's PKTSHELL (http://dunfield.classiccmp.org/dos/pktshell.zip) or KIDSMENU (as source in https://dunfield.themindfactory.com/dnld/sc/MCSAMPLE.ZIP) might be of interest.

Whats your opinion of: Counterpoints
https://web.archive.org/web/20080430215339/ht … t/amstradCP.htm

Its very small..if stripped down. Unsure if it was released as freeware though

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 32 of 81, by DaveDDS

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aazard wrote on 2024-08-28, 20:05:

As I mentioned, one of my main concerns is "space", a hypothetical 720kb boot floppy (lets assume it used MS-DOS 6.22, which I can not redistribute but is SMALL, is used) this leave us with 620kb to work in.

FWIW, at one point IBM gave away PC-DOS on the free "serverguide" toolkit DVD - a few people have redistributed that one and I don't know
of anyone having problems.

Depending on you exact requirements, this "trick" I used to make an ImageDisk bootable floppy might work for you.

ImageDisk access the floppy control in very non-standard and unusual ways - which can't be done under most O.S. without tons of special
drivers, permissions and lots more than you could fit on the boot floppy.

This is the main reason ImageDisk runs under DOS (I used PC-DOS as described above).. but most modern systems don't have easily DOS accessible
hard drives (and since you wan to read potentially Meg+ floppy disk images, you kinda need more storage than you could put on a floppy) - not to
mention that once IMD takes over, a standard booted DOS floppy won't be accessible.

What I did was to make the DOS boot mount a suitably large RamDrive, then unpack the various packages needed (ImageDisk and it's utilities,
DDLINK to transfer files, a few other handy tools etc.) to that RamDrive... everything runs from there, the original floppy is not needed, and since
the working files were compressed, you can actually fit quite a bit on to the boot floppy.

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Reply 33 of 81, by aazard

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DaveDDS wrote on 2024-08-28, 21:24:
FWIW, at one point IBM gave away PC-DOS on the free "serverguide" toolkit DVD - a few people have redistributed that one and I d […]
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aazard wrote on 2024-08-28, 20:05:

As I mentioned, one of my main concerns is "space", a hypothetical 720kb boot floppy (lets assume it used MS-DOS 6.22, which I can not redistribute but is SMALL, is used) this leave us with 620kb to work in.

FWIW, at one point IBM gave away PC-DOS on the free "serverguide" toolkit DVD - a few people have redistributed that one and I don't know
of anyone having problems.

Depending on you exact requirements, this "trick" I used to make an ImageDisk bootable floppy might work for you.

ImageDisk access the floppy control in very non-standard and unusual ways - which can't be done under most O.S. without tons of special
drivers, permissions and lots more than you could fit on the boot floppy.

This is the main reason ImageDisk runs under DOS (I used PC-DOS as described above).. but most modern systems don't have easily DOS accessible
hard drives (and since you wan to read potentially Meg+ floppy disk images, you kinda need more storage than you could put on a floppy) - not to
mention that once IMD takes over, a standard booted DOS floppy won't be accessible.

What I did was to make the DOS boot mount a suitably large RamDrive, then unpack the various packages needed (ImageDisk and it's utilities,
DDLINK to transfer files, a few other handy tools etc.) to that RamDrive... everything runs from there, the original floppy is not needed, and since
the working files were compressed, you can actually fit quite a bit on to the boot floppy.

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

I have the IBM serverkit and built 7.1 Rev 0 BLD134 complete, if you want it
Ram drive sounds neat, but I hope to avoid for the rare systems with under 640kb conventional memory (rarer, but exist)

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 34 of 81, by MiNiDOS

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Hi, @aazard, thank you very much for your post. I have been very much
involved in a similar project myself for about a year and a few months now. I
hope I do not extend myself so much on this topic that I passionately pursue.

Speaking of 286 and below CPUs OS availability on the Un*x side you have:
Linux ELKS (8088 is supported), Microsoft Xenix (earlier series), QNX v4.25
(don´t go higher), and Mark Williams Coherent 3.x (4.x requires a 386).

On the DOS(-ish) side:
There are many varieties of DOSes but you could always take a look at their
grand-daddy, Digital Research CP/M, which ruled the 70's on the user space. It
started life on 8-bit computers but was also available for PCs when they
arrived. It has lots of software available for it and plenty of platforms.

Then you have MS-DOS and PC-DOS which are siblings and do share many traits,
but have different refinements applied. They were indeed the popular choice
back in the 80's and beginning of the 90's.

DR-DOS was quite remarkable technically, and still has a follow up, which is
slowly, but steadily progressing in its open source project. It must not be
dismissed. it has a lot of small cool features no other DOS has.

There is also FreeDOS, which many enjoy, and has spun a lot of side
projects and development over the years. It is all about free software and GPL
stuff, not really my thing, I am more about being practical.

That said, you have SvarDOS which is much more open than FreeDOS, because it
accepts software that it is free but not open source, which means a much
broader path where to maneuver. It is active, and has a few developers that
also contribute to FreeDOS. According to yor first post I suggest you take a
deep look at it. It might be the most adequate DOS base for your project.

Then, there is also a more obscure, wider range of embedded DOSes most of
which you won't probably ever heard of, and are great in their own way.

My project, is geared towards retro/emulation/embedded segment. It is a
minimalistic DOS called MiNiDOS, for which I already released an early preview
(MiNiDOS 0.01 on early February this year). It has an uncomfortably relaxed
view on licensing, as I am pragmatic, and pick up whatever I think is best for
my own goals. I don't discriminate, as this is the natural progression of my own
attempt at getting a generic DOS boot, and installable disk, that could work for
all my systems (which are many, and vastly different from each other). A lot
of work has already gone into its next version, including many specially
developed programs for it (thanks to various contributors), including an
installer. We are at beta #105 now, with 180 files fitting a single 1.44MB
floppy. I hope it may be released anytime now, before #DOSCEMBER comes is the goal!

Back to your project, from, what you mentioned, I suggest that besides
adopting SvarDOS you seek out some already developed GUI framework. Given the
hardware constraints, I would revisit GEM, GEOS (early versions only), and
seriously evaluate TurboVision, as it has a lot of potential for development.

BTW, there is a great review on the Internet Archive about GUIs for DOS, which
only misses a handful of packages, but seems to be quite adequate for your goals.
Be sure to check that one out.

Dave Dunfield, who has posted above, has a released a lot of great small little
programs for DOS. He is an impressively talented developer and his work covers
plenty of DOS areas. I have even witnessed some of his software on an embedded
DOS SBC (Dave: I don't personally know you, but I am really happy you are
doing fine!).

Good luck with your project and keep it rolling!

Reply 35 of 81, by soggi

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DaveDDS wrote on 2024-08-28, 18:43:

Thanks, what I went (am still going) through was for me a major "perception
changed" about life and what truly important.. Which was a good part of the
reason I decided to...

This I can really imagine, at least a little - but it's even more: The message to the readers is that life doesn't have to be over, if you have suffered a severe blow. Again, thanks for sharing your story. 😀

DaveDDS wrote on 2024-08-28, 18:43:
In todays world where (except for in very cool forums such as here on "Vogons") anything technical that's already shipped is con […]
Show full quote

In todays world where (except for in very cool forums such as here on "Vogons")
anything technical that's already shipped is considered by most to be "too old
to be useful", a lot of the material is "obsoete" in todays industry - but I do hope
that it may be useful to some for "learning purposes"!

I was born in the GDR (German Democratic Republic / East Germany) back then in the 80s and therefor was to young to realize how bad the political system was (note: I really don't want the GDR back), but grew up in a economy of scarcity which wasn't that bad, retrospectively. The nationally-owned companies produced things which where really durable because of very limited resources (f.e. my mom still owns and uses the mixer RG28 from 1978 [wedding present]). Today you buy something and have a ~50% chance that it's broken after two years. We should come back to this fashion of economy (in some way) and leave the throwaway society behind.

DaveDDS wrote on 2024-08-28, 18:43:

I still play with stuff like this a lot, but that seems to be an ever shrinking
segment of people (sigh)!

Unfortunately, that's how it goes. As long as you like it, it even makes fun and maybe some others also like it - why should you stop doing it?

MiNiDOS wrote on 2024-08-30, 02:29:
Dave Dunfield, who has posted above, has a released a lot of great small little programs for DOS. He is an impressively talente […]
Show full quote

Dave Dunfield, who has posted above, has a released a lot of great small little
programs for DOS. He is an impressively talented developer and his work covers
plenty of DOS areas. I have even witnessed some of his software on an embedded
DOS SBC (Dave: I don't personally know you, but I am really happy you are
doing fine!).

I also second this!

Unfortunately my PC career began later - DOS gaming on a 486 (i guess) in the early 90s and first PC in household in late 1998 (after having a C64 since 1992), the very beginning was in the late 80s when I was a little child and had the chance to play on a Poly-Play (the first and only arcade cabinet from the GDR).

======================

I also have some on-topic stuff:

  • Arachne - graphical web browser for DOS (and Linux), open source software, 8086+
  • Dillo 3.0.2b - small web browser for DOS, port by Georg Potthast (2013/03/17), open source software, CPU/platform support!?, will be added to my tools section.
  • Links - graphical web browser for DOS, OS/2, OpenVMS, Windows, ..., open source software, CPU/platform support!?
  • Lynx - text-based web browser for DOS, OS/2, VMS, Windows 3.x and up, ..., open source software, 386+!?

kind regards
soggi

Vintage BIOSes, firmware, drivers, tools, manuals and (3dfx) game patches -> soggi's BIOS & Firmware Page

soggi.org on Twitter - inactive at the moment

Reply 36 of 81, by aazard

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MiNiDOS wrote on 2024-08-30, 02:29:
Hi, @aazard, thank you very much for your post. I have been very much involved in a similar project myself for about a year an […]
Show full quote

Hi, @aazard, thank you very much for your post. I have been very much
involved in a similar project myself for about a year and a few months now. I
hope I do not extend myself so much on this topic that I passionately pursue.

Speaking of 286 and below CPUs OS availability on the Un*x side you have:
Linux ELKS (8088 is supported), Microsoft Xenix (earlier series), QNX v4.25
(don´t go higher), and Mark Williams Coherent 3.x (4.x requires a 386).

On the DOS(-ish) side:
There are many varieties of DOSes but you could always take a look at their
grand-daddy, Digital Research CP/M, which ruled the 70's on the user space. It
started life on 8-bit computers but was also available for PCs when they
arrived. It has lots of software available for it and plenty of platforms.

Then you have MS-DOS and PC-DOS which are siblings and do share many traits,
but have different refinements applied. They were indeed the popular choice
back in the 80's and beginning of the 90's.

DR-DOS was quite remarkable technically, and still has a follow up, which is
slowly, but steadily progressing in its open source project. It must not be
dismissed. it has a lot of small cool features no other DOS has.

There is also FreeDOS, which many enjoy, and has spun a lot of side
projects and development over the years. It is all about free software and GPL
stuff, not really my thing, I am more about being practical.

That said, you have SvarDOS which is much more open than FreeDOS, because it
accepts software that it is free but not open source, which means a much
broader path where to maneuver. It is active, and has a few developers that
also contribute to FreeDOS. According to yor first post I suggest you take a
deep look at it. It might be the most adequate DOS base for your project.

Then, there is also a more obscure, wider range of embedded DOSes most of
which you won't probably ever heard of, and are great in their own way.

My project, is geared towards retro/emulation/embedded segment. It is a
minimalistic DOS called MiNiDOS, for which I already released an early preview
(MiNiDOS 0.01 on early February this year). It has an uncomfortably relaxed
view on licensing, as I am pragmatic, and pick up whatever I think is best for
my own goals. I don't discriminate, as this is the natural progression of my own
attempt at getting a generic DOS boot, and installable disk, that could work for
all my systems (which are many, and vastly different from each other). A lot
of work has already gone into its next version, including many specially
developed programs for it (thanks to various contributors), including an
installer. We are at beta #105 now, with 180 files fitting a single 1.44MB
floppy. I hope it may be released anytime now, before #DOSCEMBER comes is the goal!

Back to your project, from, what you mentioned, I suggest that besides
adopting SvarDOS you seek out some already developed GUI framework. Given the
hardware constraints, I would revisit GEM, GEOS (early versions only), and
seriously evaluate TurboVision, as it has a lot of potential for development.

BTW, there is a great review on the Internet Archive about GUIs for DOS, which
only misses a handful of packages, but seems to be quite adequate for your goals.
Be sure to check that one out.

Dave Dunfield, who has posted above, has a released a lot of great small little
programs for DOS. He is an impressively talented developer and his work covers
plenty of DOS areas. I have even witnessed some of his software on an embedded
DOS SBC (Dave: I don't personally know you, but I am really happy you are
doing fine!).

Good luck with your project and keep it rolling!

Thank you.

I will look into a few of these.

Oh yes, I saw the HUGE DOS GUI & File Managers review, read it, enjoyed it....highly recommended, a bit low on the "technicals" but very "full flavored" . (Desktop2 and Breadbox are neat. I truly enjoy New Deal Office 2000)
/

I keep circling back to check issues of:
"can a slow toaster run it" (8088 with sub 640kb + mono) > "size of common access floppy" (720kb?) > "ease of use for grandma" (easy for anyone) > repeat

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 37 of 81, by aazard

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Super Fast Example math of space considerations, 720kb floppy used in example:

Scope: EASY/SIMPLE Pre-Installation/Maintenance of Retro Systems (target: XT/AT/Pre-386, maintaining 8088 sub-640kb compatibility. AKA: "Toasters").
NOT an advanced testing suite, or BIOS/FIRMSWARE Flashing tool (these exist and are not "simple grandma tools")
All while NOT distributing "pirated" software

Easy XT PE ("Mostly" GUI Driven)
- DOS base "minimal" boot image, FreeDOS 1.3: 237kb total < FREEWARE (this may be 108kb? I am finding multiple references to "minimal" that differ)
- CD-ROM device driver, CDROM.SYS: 4kb < FREEWARE (simple small, for data read access, likely to launch a DOS/OS setup to systems disk)
- Driver to access CD-ROM as a drive (MSCDEX replacment): SHSUCDX (7.8kb) < FREEWARE (nsm confirms "%define i8086" flag, it works)
- Mouse device driver: CTMOUSE 1.9.1 (5.6kb)< FREEWARE
- "Upper/EMS/XMS" Memory device driver: (unneeded in kernel of FreeDOS) 0kb
- Boot Manager/Loader, BOOTMGR (multi-BOOT ManaGeR): 6kb < FREEWARE
- File Manager, PC Valet Shell: 17kb (26K, 17K unpacked & recompressed with UPX), 11K more for the hex editor & other add ons (is this freeware?)
- Partition tool, Ranish Partition Manager 2.37: 57kb < FREEWARE
- Backup/Restore Tool - Norton Backup 2.0 (174kb? is this freeware?) // Back-It 4.0 185kb < OEM/FREEWARE

Consideration (but the size used is... concernig for what is offered, Point&Click-GUI)
- Base GUI Launcher: Costa, minimal = "desktop + mouse + 1 theme + 1 icon + def's/bsv's", desktop pre-configured, "only 175kb"? - FREEWARE - if mouse.com removed (& CTMOUSE is seen), save 35kb
- Something vastly "simpler" (wireframe "text gui" shell/launcher with mouse support??) , I'll do a little more digging

....SOME (2kb? max?) SPACE SPENT ON AUTOEXEC.BAT/CONFIG.SYS/ETC
... A basic/universal network driver (does this exist? I assume so)

520-529kb + 175kb ?GUI? = 695-704kb/ 720kb
- Room for the DOSBench V0.1 tester or similar sized app, better used on a network driver??
- A HYPER-TINY "ram tester" would be ideal

UPX unpacking and recompression is being considered (R&D needed), but I would need to read up on unpacking, and how this may effect the slowest toasters (8088 @4.77) I have used UPX/FUPX GUI to compress, but never unpack and recompress... will update

//

Past the most basic "network access", possibly, a completely separate 720kb disk (or a 1.44mb disk) would be needed (like: the mTCP "suite" I'm sure there are "ready to use/write to disk" versions??).
Same for, "Advanced testing". again past the most basic .. a completely separate 720kb disk (or a 1.44mb disk) would be needed. (This starts to become "out of scope" past basic "health testing"!!!)

GUI Launcher .. would really bring the "ease" issue up to where I feel "grandma could do it" (anyone should be able to complete a pre-install process needed), but the size of such applications is big (even in Assembly, Basic or TurboPascal)

//

WHAT IS PC VALET "SUPER MENU"?? << I see it mentioned in some pages, I even found the archive of it, but no pictures or program synopsis, past "menu to launch applications"

Last edited by aazard on 2024-08-31, 03:31. Edited 2 times in total.

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 38 of 81, by aazard

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Thoughts for "insane light" launcher (Point & Click GUI, if possible)?

Found "yet another source of launchers", http://www.retroarchive.org/garbo/pc/menu/index.html

Most look shareware?

Anyone have suggestions for a "small, clean, effective" launcher that supports 8088's?

Mouse support is a "desired" nice to have, but I am open to suggestions.

Possible "simple launcher" replacement for a Point & Click GUI, thoughts:
Desired:
- Tiny (sub 50kb?)
- Easy launcher start, for auto-execute direct entry
- support for Icons with text label
- Mouse support/driven
- No extra apps/features (past perhaps an editor/txt viewer)
- Visual features that make more attractive then restoring to a "nested batch menu"

//

There seems to be a hi-lighting of "The HardDisk Accomplice V. 1.70", sounds interesting
Attempts to test it report "no longer supported" (in dosbox-x)

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 39 of 81, by DaveDDS

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MiNiDOS wrote on 2024-08-30, 02:29:

Dave Dunfield, who has posted above, has a released a lot of great small little programs for DOS. ...
(Dave: I don't personally know you, but I am really happy you are doing fine!).

Thanks, I'm glad that people still appreciate some of the "stuff" I've been doing basically my
"whole life"... if anyone can benefit from what I've learned over the years even better.

soggi wrote on 2024-08-30, 04:16:

Unfortunately my PC career began later - DOS gaming on a 486 (i guess) in the early 90s and first PC in household in late 1998 ...

My first computer was a homebuilt 8080 system back in the 70's. It's what
really got me started, a I wrote a LOT of low-level software for it.
My university was retiring equipment from a "language lab" which included
a bunch of solenoid controlled (fully remote controllable) 5" reel-to-reel
tape drives - managed to score a couple, designed my own "digital" recording
means, and made my first OS (I guess a TOS (Tape Operating System).

Technically my first commercially produced system was a "COSMAC ELF" a weird
little thing that used an RCA 1802 processor. It had a hex keypad and somewhat
of a video output. It had a whopping 256 bytes of total memory, and the
video display showed all of it as pixels... this means if you were writing
something to play with video output, you always saw random crap on part of the screen
which was you program code!

My first useful commercial system was a MITS Altair - 8080 CPU, initially 1K
of RAM and front panel lights/switches to "talk to it". Over a few years I added:
- 64K RAM (a HUGE amount)
- ADM-3A terminal for a console
- NorthStar disk controller and a pair of massive 90k SSSD hard-sectored floppy drives.
- Pertec 9-track tape drive with homemade controller...
- 300bps modem (fairly large floor separate box)
- A few more serial ports, a real-time and time-of-day clock, and a bunch of other hardware.

Anyone who wants can actually experience running a system from the 70, in this
case my exact Altair - I wrote a simulator/emulator for it which you can get:
Daves Old Computers -> Download Simulators and Emulators (near bottom) -> My own Altair

This will let you experience booting and running "North Star DOS", my own "DMF" OS,
a bootable "forth" setup, run many applications and even play some games
- all from the 70s/early 80s! - It runs under DOS (but works well in DosBox)

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal