VOGONS


First post, by Kahenraz

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I am setting up my new office and I've laid out the following synthesizers on my shelf:

  • Roland MT-32, (old) for buffer overflow
  • Roland CM-32L, for MT-32 without buffer overflow and extra sounds
  • Roland SC-55, (v1.21) x2 for CTF and twice the polyphony
  • Roland SC-88VL, for increased polyphony, extra tones, and to match composer rendition
  • Yamaha MU50, because sometimes it sounds better than Roland

Have I missed any major sound "experiences" for the MIDI era? Are there any other synthesizers I should consider?

Other synthesizers I own but aren't adding, because they feel redundant:

  • Roland SC-7
  • Roland SC-55mkII
  • Roland SC-55ST
  • Roland SC-88ST Pro
Last edited by Kahenraz on 2024-08-22, 07:03. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 19, by Shponglefan

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You've definitely covered the major bases.

There are others to consider, but they would be more for niche use cases. That said, if you are looking for others, some options to consider are:

Roland JV-1010 - This would be my absolute favorite Roland synth, but it does have one annoying drawback. Sound-wise, it's great. It uses a mix of samples I've heard on other Roland synths (SC-55, SC-88, etc.), but I really like the specific combo they use in the JV-1010. That said, it suffers from an annoying issue when multiple program change messages are sent at the same time as notes. This can cause a slight delay in note playback. It doesn't affect every music track, but it is noticeable in games like Doom. From what I've read, the other JV-series (i.e. JV-1080) have the same issue. It also seems to be present in the XV-series, albeit with less of a delay. I did use this synth (plus the Korg AG-10) during a playthrough of Blood and it was awesome.

Korg AG-10 - I'm not a huge fan of most Korg GM synths, but I do like the AG-10. It seems to have a more balanced GM sample set compared to later models. That said, it's going to be hit or miss when it comes to how good it sounds in different games / music tracks

Kawaii Gmega - Similar to the AG-10, this is just for another flavor of GM sounds. It also has a slightly grittier, lower fidelity sound (at least to my ears) compared to later GM synths. But this is part of the flavor of sound it provides and I kind of like it.

Yamaha MU/TG synths - I believe the later Yamaha MU-series included updated samples compared to the earlier synths. I know the MU80 was the first, so it might be different compared to later models? There is also the earlier TG series (TG100, TG300) to consider as well.

There are also non-GM synths to consider, if you're interested in the pre-GM era of music. Synths like the Yamaha FB-01 (same as IBM Feature Card) or Casio CSM-1. These were supported by a handful of early Sierra games. Not anything super special, but part of the early pantheon of music options that Sierra supported.

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Reply 2 of 19, by Kahenraz

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Is there anything that uses the IBM Feature Card exclusively (or better) than any other option?

Reply 3 of 19, by Shponglefan

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Kahenraz wrote on 2024-08-21, 20:19:

Is there anything that uses the IBM Feature Card exclusively (or better) than any other option?

Not that I'm aware of. AFAIK, there are only a handful of Sierra games that support it and it's an inferior option compared to other sound sources.

In general, the order of music quality in Sierra games tend to go:

1) MT-32
2) Adlib
3) Everything else

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Reply 4 of 19, by SuperDeadite

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Personally, I'd replace the MU50 for an MU100 (or better). Beyond that, a Serdaco Chill board for external waveblaster boards is always fun. (Qwave is my favorite, but you cant buy them anymore sadly).

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, DreamBlaster S2, X2, McFly, E-Wave, QWave, CrystalBlaster C2, Yucatan FX, BeepBlaster

Reply 5 of 19, by Xanxi

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That's a question i ask to myself every now and then.

Currently, i am using Roland MT-32 and SC55, Yamaha MU500 and Korg X5DR.
The two first are mandatory, the MU500 sounds modern and high quality and is a great addition. X5DR sounds inferior and sometimes odd compared to the others but is nonetheless a fine addition to the polyphony when i use several GM at the same time.

I also have a SC50, a SC88, which are redundant compared to the SC55 i like more for perfect compatibility, a Yamaha MU100 which has been replaced by the better MU500, and a MidiPlus MidiEngine which sounds very much like the SC55 but less loud.

Apart from curiosity making me to look for Casio or Kawai devices, i think i am covered here.

I own a Yamaha FB01 but it is not GM so i can't add it to my setup (several computers connected to all the synth), as i am not a musician able to use it but only a MIDI music listener.

Reply 6 of 19, by Kahenraz

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The SC-88 is not redundant with an SC-55. The SC-55 does not have enough polyphony for many older DOS games, with instruments disappearing during playback. The problem is even worse with later revisions of the SC-55 without CTF, including the SC-7 and SC-55ST. Even the SC-55mkII is insufficient for music from the likes of Warcraft II.

See here for more information:

An analysis of Warcraft 2 MIDI music on Roland synthesizers

This is the reason I bought two matching pairs of SC-55s, to try and double the polyphony by splitting the voices between them. I have yet to actually set this up, but I plan to do it at some point in the future. Two SC-55s still have less polyphony than a single SC-88, so it will be interesting to examine the results.

Reply 7 of 19, by SuperDeadite

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For "weirdo" modules, my favorite is the Akai SG01k. Sounds very unique. It is a very poorly balenced module and the result is that it sounds either mind-blowingly awesome, or terrible depending on the game.

And of course the BeepBlaster deserves a mention as it's a really fun board to play with!

Xanxi wrote on 2024-08-21, 22:32:
That's a question i ask to myself every now and then. […]
Show full quote

That's a question i ask to myself every now and then.

Currently, i am using Roland MT-32 and SC55, Yamaha MU500 and Korg X5DR.
The two first are mandatory, the MU500 sounds modern and high quality and is a great addition. X5DR sounds inferior and sometimes odd compared to the others but is nonetheless a fine addition to the polyphony when i use several GM at the same time.

I also have a SC50, a SC88, which are redundant compared to the SC55 i like more for perfect compatibility, a Yamaha MU100 which has been replaced by the better MU500, and a MidiPlus MidiEngine which sounds very much like the SC55 but less loud.

Apart from curiosity making me to look for Casio or Kawai devices, i think i am covered here.

I own a Yamaha FB01 but it is not GM so i can't add it to my setup (several computers connected to all the synth), as i am not a musician able to use it but only a MIDI music listener.

While the MU500 is a nice module if you get one cheap, I wouldn't recommend one for most gamers, as you have to do almost everything via SysEx. It's lack of frontal controls aren't great for retro rigs. Especially if you want to switch between the MU Basic and MU100 GM sound banks. Also, no PLG support makes me sad... It's a good module, but there's a reason they tend to sell for cheaper than other MUs...

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, DreamBlaster S2, X2, McFly, E-Wave, QWave, CrystalBlaster C2, Yucatan FX, BeepBlaster

Reply 8 of 19, by chinny22

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You definitely have the "major" ones and anything else would be in the "because sometimes it sounds better than Roland" category which is personal taste anyway.

but if your looking for excuses and depending on your definition you could maybe get
One of Serdaco 's devices to represent "modern era of MIDI"
Creative WaveBlaster, just because Creative was a big name at the time.

Reply 9 of 19, by Kahenraz

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Is there any reason to own an MT-32 (new) if I already have a CM-32L? Isn't the CM-32L just the MT-32 (new) with extra sound banks?

The only reason I can think to own this is to experience playing MT-32 (old) and CM-32L games wrongly.

Reply 10 of 19, by Spikey

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Isn't the CM-32L just the MT-32 (new) with extra sound banks?

No, they're not the same. The CM-32L uses its own chip set, has different reverb and panning, although the result is very similar to the MT-32 2nd gen (rev1) most of the time.

Your conclusion is correct though, it doesn't offer a material benefit for gaming, although the 2nd gen does have reduced noise which may be an acceptable tradeoff for the reduced (mostly SFX) accuracy.

Regarding GM synths, the Alesis S4Plus/QSR and Korg NS5R (also NX5R, N1R) are very strong "GM plus" synths that I feel are underrated. The Korg trio sound a lot like the SC-55 character wise but since they were nearly a decade later, use mostly better samples. Analogous to Yamaha XG but with a sound more like Roland. I prefer their sound to the later Roland SC's as well (they use better converters like the older SC's do also). But, GM is obviously a very subjective thing as to what sample set people like best and what games they play (and thus instrument types are most often triggered), and it pays to check examples on YT or elsewhere.

Reply 11 of 19, by Socket5Alive

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Realistically how much different is the MT-32 vs the MT-32 mode of an SC-55?
I try to find comparisons but I’m having a hard time noticing what’s missing. Monkey Island sounds like any video I watch when I have my sc-55 set to mt-32 mode.

Reply 12 of 19, by SuperDeadite

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Socket5Alive wrote on 2024-09-04, 14:48:

Realistically how much different is the MT-32 vs the MT-32 mode of an SC-55?
I try to find comparisons but I’m having a hard time noticing what’s missing. Monkey Island sounds like any video I watch when I have my sc-55 set to mt-32 mode.

SC units do not support LA Synth (MT-32 family) custom instruments. Monkey Island only uses default instruments, so it sounds fine on SC-55 in MT-32 map mode. However games that use custom instruments will not work.

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, DreamBlaster S2, X2, McFly, E-Wave, QWave, CrystalBlaster C2, Yucatan FX, BeepBlaster

Reply 13 of 19, by MAZter

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Casio GZ-50M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcPEYrezJmM

Socket5Alive wrote on 2024-09-04, 14:48:

Realistically how much different is the MT-32 vs the MT-32 mode of an SC-55?

Try other games to compare, for some of them MT-32 emulation just wrong:

Theme Park:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X74X8SX-NNQ

Hocus Pocus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CADkK65uVd4

Dragon Sphere:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6WhqmrNZK8

The Legacy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9pPaC_ho5g

Dune 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEpyLWsdQFQ

Doom is what you want (c) MAZter

Reply 14 of 19, by Shponglefan

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Spikey wrote on 2024-09-04, 09:47:

Regarding GM synths, the Alesis S4Plus/QSR and Korg NS5R (also NX5R, N1R) are very strong "GM plus" synths that I feel are underrated.

Do you have any recommended game soundtracks to use these with?

I have an Alesis QSR (and Nanosynth) and about a half-dozen Korg synths. I've found them generally okay, but other than the Korg AG-10, found they were generally inferior to Yamaha and Roland synths.

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Reply 15 of 19, by Spikey

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Socket5Alive wrote on 2024-09-04, 14:48:

Realistically how much different is the MT-32 vs the MT-32 mode of an SC-55?
I try to find comparisons but I’m having a hard time noticing what’s missing. Monkey Island sounds like any video I watch when I have my sc-55 set to mt-32 mode.

Entirely different. Different synthesis methods (LA with PCM vs PCM) and effects, no custom instruments, minimal filters. The MT-32 mode of a SC-55 is close to zero use for gaming and mostly existed for people who made MT-32 music to allow some compatibility by altering their MIDI files (note: altering).

Reply 16 of 19, by Spikey

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MAZter wrote on 2024-09-04, 15:26:
Casio GZ-50M […]
Show full quote

Casio GZ-50M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcPEYrezJmM

Socket5Alive wrote on 2024-09-04, 14:48:

Realistically how much different is the MT-32 vs the MT-32 mode of an SC-55?

Try other games to compare, for some of them MT-32 emulation just wrong:

Theme Park:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X74X8SX-NNQ

Hocus Pocus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CADkK65uVd4

Dragon Sphere:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6WhqmrNZK8

The Legacy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9pPaC_ho5g

Dune 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEpyLWsdQFQ

I can't speak for all of these, but Hocus Pocus is a GM/SC-55 game, so running that on a SC-55 but in MT-32 emulation mode is just plain wrong!

Reply 17 of 19, by Spikey

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Shponglefan wrote on 2024-09-04, 15:48:
Spikey wrote on 2024-09-04, 09:47:

Regarding GM synths, the Alesis S4Plus/QSR and Korg NS5R (also NX5R, N1R) are very strong "GM plus" synths that I feel are underrated.

Do you have any recommended game soundtracks to use these with?

I have an Alesis QSR (and Nanosynth) and about a half-dozen Korg synths. I've found them generally okay, but other than the Korg AG-10, found they were generally inferior to Yamaha and Roland synths.

I don't, I haven't extensively used Alesis synths for gaming. Pretty good across the board instrument wise though, the GM set alone is 4MB compressed of the sample ROM (less in Roland and Yamaha synths). I do think someone posted some Alesis demos here this year for Larry 6 or something though!

I would recommend predominantly acoustic scores like King's Quest 6, Space Quest 5, maybe Leisure Suit Larry 6 and going from there. I do recall Alesis has an issue with some MIDI controllers though, so they may play back wrong with QuestStudios MIDI files, even in GM mode (at least my S4 Plus did, and I think in GM mode they're basically identical).

As for Korg's, I don't know the AG10 but the NS5R/NX5R/N1R are all very good in GM mode and I recommend them wholeheartedly, they have GS and optionally XG compatibility (stock in NX5R/N1R) too.
They're warm sounding like the Roland SC-55, yet hi fi as well. The sample set is reminiscent of the Sound Canvas line as well, sort of like an 88 Pro with elements of 8820/50, and occasionally much better sound ala the JV series in the more modern samples. Examples here are really anything - but, scores like the ones listed above, plus Gabriel Knight 1, Quest for Glory 4, Space Quest 6 and anything that sounds good with warm or thick sound will sound good here.

Reply 18 of 19, by Kahenraz

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I finally got all of my synthesizers hooked up! This was extremely challenging to fit onto a 10" shelf, as well as trying to negotiate all of the different power and audio cables in such a tight space. To save room, instead of separate power supplies for each of the Roland synthesizers, I bought a single 9V 6A power supply and split that across all 5 units. The Yamaha is 12V, so that got its own separate power adapter.

I am extremely satisfied with how this all turned out. I could definitely revisit this with shorter cabling, but managed to cram everything back there for the time being. Due to the complexity of the setup, I labeled everything thoroughly.

There are a pair of Roland SC-55s (v1.21) on the bottom that have their MIDI channels interleaved, an SC-88VL above that, then the Yamaha. The MT-32 (old) and CM-32L (v1.2) are on the right. Then I have my MIDI thru box and a stereo mixer.

I've been wanting to do this for years. I'm so pleased to see it all finally come together. There is even room for one more input on the mixer.

When fully powered on and idle, it ended up drawing about 40W in total, according to my UPS.

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Last edited by Kahenraz on 2024-09-17, 03:01. Edited 3 times in total.

Reply 19 of 19, by Kahenraz

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Some more photos.

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