StriderTR wrote on 2024-08-06, 03:33:

For sound, I have two cards, an Opti 82C930 and an AWE64 CT4520. The Opti is installed, but currently not setup, nothing is configured and no drivers are installed.

I think this might be causing your issue. As documented here the OPTi 82C930 will automatically take over A220 I5 D1 if not initialized.

For a while, I also used that card alongside an AWE64 in one my my systems, but I always had to initialize both of them. Specifically, the drivers for the OPTi card needed to be loaded first in AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS otherwise, the AWE64 wouldn't work correctly. Also, you need to initialize the OPTi card in SBPro mode, and not in WSS mode.

You can try to explicitly disable the Opti with UNISOUND.

I gave this a try by just pulling the Opti out of the system for now. Sadly, the issue persists.

Tested a few games like Mechwarrior (1989), TMNT2, PETSCii Robots, etc. and they load fine but with no sound.

Games like TMNT1, Castlevania, and Wolfenstien 3D just hard freeze on start or crash to DOS.

Wolf3D spits out an "Divide error" and "Null pointer assignment" then hangs the system while CV spits out "Initsound returns: 2" error and drops to DOS.

Some of these use Adlib, like PETSCii and Castlevania that I know for sure, I wonder if the 133MHz CPU is too fast for Adlib? Could have sworn I read that somewhere...

Looks like I'll have to continue this tomorrow. 😀

133 MHz *is* too fast for the original Adlib, and for other cards with OPL2.
AWE64 has CQM, which is more speed-tolerant, though some programs may still exhibit problems.
Try to disable caches...

Well, had some time today and tried slowing the system down. Same issues persist.

Disabled caches in the BIOS and using software, as well as slowing down the CPU via software. Disabling caches alone got it down to 43MHz, software slowdown I set it at 33MHz. All of that worked to slow the system down, but had no effect on the problem. It was worth a try.

The search continues... 😀

Try reordering the loading in your autoexec.bat (make a backup) to:

1. Load C:\SB16\CTCM.EXE before the others. Also do not use a DEVICE= command to load CTCM, just C:\SB16\CTCM.EXE.

Don't load DIAGNOSE /S (99% sure you do not need this for fully PNP AWE32/64 cards. Only load CTCM to initialize card and it also sets blaster= resource info.

2. Then C:\SB16\AWEUTIL /S (enables adlib and also needed I think for games that natively support EMU chip)

3. Then C:\SB16\MIXERSET /P /Q ( I would run mixerset again after this, without switches to check the volume of all sliders and that wave and midi is not muted) Also double check your input/output ports are not muted for sound.

I don't think you need to load CTCU in you autoexcex.bat. Normally you run this utility only once, then exclude any used resources(io, irq,dma) other non-pnp ISA cards are using so the other util, CTCM, knows not to use them when setting up the SBAWE.

You can also try to replace the Creative software with UNISOUND.

Riikcakirds wrote on 2024-08-07, 16:32:

Try reordering the loading in your autoexec.bat (make a backup) to: […]
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Try reordering the loading in your autoexec.bat (make a backup) to:

1. Load C:\SB16\CTCM.EXE before the others. Also do not use a DEVICE= command to load CTCM, just C:\SB16\CTCM.EXE.

Don't load DIAGNOSE /S (99% sure you do not need this for fully PNP AWE32/64 cards. Only load CTCM to initialize card and it also sets blaster= resource info.

2. Then C:\SB16\AWEUTIL /S (enables adlib and also needed I think for games that natively support EMU chip)

3. Then C:\SB16\MIXERSET /P /Q ( I would run mixerset again after this, without switches to check the volume of all sliders and that wave and midi is not muted) Also double check your input/output ports are not muted for sound.

I don't think you need to load CTCU in you autoexcex.bat. Normally you run this utility only once, then exclude any used resources(io, irq,dma) other non-pnp ISA cards are using so the other util, CTCM, knows not to use them when setting up the SBAWE.

Sadly, none of these changes had any effect.

I will note that CTCM must be loaded as a DEVICE (config.sys) or the card wont initialize.

Thanks for the ideas! Was worth a go. I will mess with it more tomorrow since I have the day off.

Edit: Forgot to mention, nothing is muted, all volumes are currently at max.

Grzyb wrote on 2024-08-07, 16:50:

You can also try to replace the Creative software with UNISOUND.

I just downloaded it and will give it a go! 😀

Update...

I gave UNISOUND a try, and I managed to get a little bit further, but only with a single game, PETSCii Robots.

I REM'ed out everything pointing to the SB16 drivers and setup the UNISOUND driver. It detected the card and setup just fine, and the first game I tested was PETSCii. Hearing the sound and music kick on got my hopes up. Again, all the DOS4G games worked fine, but no other game I tried had any sound, froze the system, or just dumped me back to DOS after launching it.

My time today is limited so I will mess with it more after work and tomorrow. I tried a few different settings combos to see if it made any difference, but so far, nothing.

I'm really baffled as to what's going on because I know I had this all working at one point. I went so far as to move the AWE64 card to a different slot and clean the contacts just to see if it was a connection issue. I'm starting to grasp at any straws I see at this point.

Since many of the games I am trying to play are early 90's or late 80's, I think I am going to try slowing the system down again with the UNISOUND driver running and see if it makes any difference.

Thanks again for all the feedback and help, I'm willing to try anything at this point. 😀

Update #2:

After several hours playing around with UNISOUND and getting no further, I finally decided to pull the AWE64 and reinstall the OPTi card. Setup of the OPTi went smooth and .... same problems.

All DOS4G games run great, even Quake runs with sounds, not a single issue. PETSCii Robots, works great.

Everything else, exactly the same as before. None of the Keens will even start, Duke 1 and 2 start, just with no sound. Wolf3D still won't start. TMNT1 drops back to DOS, TMNT2 starts but then freezes at the character select menu. Dune runs fine, but with no sound.

I am 100% completely baffled as to what's going on. The same basic issues across 2 cards and 3 different sets of drivers, and every possible configuration of those said drivers tells me my problem lies elsewhere, but for the life of me I can't seem to find it.

I'm 99% sure there are no conflicts anywhere, I have everything in the BIOS disabled that can be disabled, LPT, COMS, and USB. I've been grasping at a lot of straws, enabling/disabling EMM386, loading what can be loaded high and low. Disabling CPU cache and slowing it down to 33MHz. I haven't messed with enabling/disabling memory shadows and such yet, I guess that will be the next straw I grasp at, I just didn't figure it would have any effect on these issues, but at this point I have no idea.

I did notice some games report -32MB of RAM, like Sim City 2000, but it works just fine. I would swap out for a 16MB stick of RAM, but 32MB is the smallest I have on hand, I'm also not sure if that could be the issue or not across such a wide range of games.

All of this gives me the feeling my "sound issues" are just a symptom of some other problem I'm just not seeing.

I've attached my current config below for reference.

Any suggestions are welcome.

AUTOEXEC:

1SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
2SET SOUND16=C:\OPTI930
3C:\OPTI930\sndinit /b
4C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X
5@ECHO OFF
6PROMPT $p$g
7PATH C:\DOS;C:\COREL\WP62
8set mouse=C:\MOUSE
9LH C:\MOUSE\mouse.exe /Q
10PATH  %PATH%;C:\OPTI930

CONFIG:

1DEVICE=C:\OPTI930\cdsetup.sys /T:X
2DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
3DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
4DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE
5DOS=HIGH
6STACKS=9,256
7FILES=40

What do you have set for "PNP OS Installed"? My AWE64 would not work properly unless I set it to "No" and let the BIOS initialize the card.

enaiel wrote on 2024-08-09, 02:04:

What do you have set for "PNP OS Installed"? My AWE64 would not work properly unless I set it to "No" and let the BIOS initialize the card.

It figures that one spot is glared out. 😜

It's set to "no".

To clarify, I am now running the Opti 82C930, not the AWE64, I swapped them out earlier to try and eliminate the AWE64 card as the problem.

To update, I've gotten a little bit further...sort of. I've been playing with this all day today, and after several hours, I've managed to get Wolf3D to start, with sound, only to hard freeze on the "PG13" screen. Not sure what I did to get that working, but nothing else has changed so far.

I have made quite a few changes and ran memmaker to let it do it's thing. It's a good thing I keep my hair so short I can't pull it out... This is driving me crazy... 😜

This is where I currently sit on my config.

1SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
2SET SOUND16=C:\OPTI930
3C:\OPTI930\sndinit /b
4LH /L:0;1,45456 /S C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X
5@ECHO OFF
6PROMPT $p$g
7PATH C:\DOS;C:\COREL\WP62
8set mouse=C:\MOUSE
9SET TEMP=C:\TEMP
10SET TMP=C:\TEMP
11LH /L:0;1,24304 /S C:\MOUSE\mouse.exe /Q
12PATH  %PATH%;C:\OPTI930

1DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
2DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM
3BUFFERS=15,0
4FILES=40
5DOS=UMB
6LASTDRIVE=E
7FCBS=4,0
8DEVICE=C:\OPTI930\cdsetup.sys /T:X
9DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
10DOS=HIGH
11STACKS=9,256

I just like to point out that some games pretend to accept sound choices but don't really obey them.

I nearly despaired with Warlord2, which offers a choice of irq 5 or 7, but never worked on 7. Other games never work on 5.
Perhaps try to configure card to IRQ7 and disable printer?

Do you have some jumpered card around? Like an ESS 688?

ux-3 wrote on 2024-08-09, 05:07:

I just like to point out that some games pretend to accept sound choices but don't really obey them. […]
Show full quote

I just like to point out that some games pretend to accept sound choices but don't really obey them.

I nearly despaired with Warlord2, which offers a choice of irq 5 or 7, but never worked on 7. Other games never work on 5.
Perhaps try to configure card to IRQ7 and disable printer?

Do you have some jumpered card around? Like an ESS 688?

Sadly, I have nothing older or with jumpers, just the two cards discussed in this thread. 🙁

I have tried all possible DMA/IRQ combos on both cards.

All ports are disabled in the BIOS, LPT1 (printer), COM1, COM2, USB.

I'm really leaning toward some other problem I have yet to discover and don't think this is just a sound issue anymore. Not persisting across two different cards and 3 different drivers. Or it's a combo of issues, but I hope not.

Frustration has set in, determination is still strong, this is my current selfie....

At this point, I suggest running Memtest on that system to check the RAM.

Duke Nukem 2 should definitively work on the AWE64 and the OPTi 82C930. Both cards support ADPCM, so every sound effect should play correctly, and the music is just plain FM synth.

Have you tested these games anywhere for sound functionality? Do THESE copies work anywhere else?

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-08-09, 06:17:

At this point, I suggest running Memtest on that system to check the RAM.

Duke Nukem 2 should definitively work on the AWE64 and the OPTi 82C930. Both cards support ADPCM, so every sound effect should play correctly, and the music is just plain FM synth.

I've downloaded Memtest86+ 4.10 and will give it a go!

I have however, made more progress, but I'm not 100% sure as to the cause. I once again disabled both internal and external cache in the BIOS, along with BIOS shadow. I've done this before, but this time, when I booted back into DOS, I was presented with a surprise. Wolf3D working perfectly, full sound working in TMNT2, Duke 2, Dungeon Master 2, and many other games that were giving me trouble. So, I started to re-enable these settings one at a time to see what happened, and to my shock, I managed to re-enable all 3 and nothing stopped working. However some games still don't work or have no sound.

*bangs head on desk* - At least it's progress, I guess. =/

ux-3 wrote on 2024-08-09, 14:16:

Have you tested these games anywhere for sound functionality? Do THESE copies work anywhere else?

I've ran them all in DOSBox and most of them on my EPIA-800 machine (Win95), and they all work fine.

I'm in the process of launching every game on the machine and seeing what I get. I've come across a few that still display the same no sound or crashing.

Duke 1, Dune, Ultima 4 (sound works in setup, but not the game), BattleTech, Dangerous Dave, Dungeon Master 1, and Horror Zombies.

There are more but I'm just removing them from the system since the all either have console versions, or I have them working on my EPIA-800. I just wanted to mess with the DOS versions on this machine. (Alien, Castlevania, Batman, Beverly Hills Cop, Bionic Commando, Gauntlet, Goonies, and a few more.)

I ran out of time last night, but I've got about 20 or so more games to try. 😀

PCI/VGA Palette Snoop...

Had some more time last night so I compared all my BIOS settings to the photos I had taken earlier, and there was one setting I forgot I had disabled, PCI/VGA Palette Snoop. So, I re-enabled it.... and ....my issues returned. Many "older" games either crashed/froze or refused to load. Disabled it, those games all work fine again...

So far, I've re-tested all the DOS4G games I have (again), plus Star Trek 25th, Dungeon Master 1, Immortal, LOTR 1 + 2, PETSCii, Rambo III, Spiderman, MadTV, Prince of Persia, Duke 2, Star Control, Police Quest 2 and 3 , and Wolf3D, all working perfectly. Most of them will not work or be soundless with PCI/VGA Palette Snoop enabled.... so weird.

Still working on sound for a few other older games like Police Quest 1, Horror Zombies, and the original Dune.

Disabling PCI/VGA Palette Snoop has solved a lot of the issues I was attributing to sound. I'll take the win, even if I'm unsure as to exactly why it was causing so many issues to begin with.

Update:

All games are still running great!

That being said, I've got a stupid question. Does the AWE64 just have issues with older games? Specifically MIDI it seems, or those looking for default SB settings? Like Wolf 3D, the Keen games, and Petscii Robots (modern)? No sound at all in any of them. Kings Quest VI has speech, but no music.

Currently configured at "SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H6 P330 E620 T6", it works with most all games and software, but no combo of settings seems to work with those 3 games. Or, and I missing something?