Is the audio on the CMI8330 reversed in general? Because I compared the MK8330 to an AWE64 and got completely inverse results. I'm using the same audio cables, mixer and speakers for both, so the result of the audio chain is the same.

AWE64

Duke 3D (SB Pro): reversed
Duke 3D (SB16): normal
Doom: normal
Wolf 3D: normal

MK8330

Duke 3D (SB Pro): normal
Duke 3D (SB16): reversed
Doom: reversed
Wolf 3D: reversed

If the stereo channels on the MK8330 are just naturally reversed, then that's an easy fix. I can just switch the left and right cables when connecting to the mixer.

All I can say is that ΜΚ8330 is made exactly to datasheet specs when it comes to such connections
some games will be OK - some won't , it's just how things are :\
there have been threads over the years trying to make sense of it, like this one: Reverse stereo on Sound Blaster Pro & compatibles

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-05-27, 22:29:

Is the audio on the CMI8330 reversed in general? Because I compared the MK8330 to an AWE64 and got completely inverse results. […]
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Is the audio on the CMI8330 reversed in general? Because I compared the MK8330 to an AWE64 and got completely inverse results. I'm using the same audio cables, mixer and speakers for both, so the result of the audio chain is the same.

AWE64

Duke 3D (SB Pro): reversed
Duke 3D (SB16): normal
Doom: normal
Wolf 3D: normal

MK8330

Duke 3D (SB Pro): normal
Duke 3D (SB16): reversed
Doom: reversed
Wolf 3D: reversed

If the stereo channels on the MK8330 are just naturally reversed, then that's an easy fix. I can just switch the left and right cables when connecting to the mixer.

The issue here is actually that SB16 and onwards have reversed audio.

appiah4 wrote on 2024-05-28, 05:38:

The issue here is actually that SB16 and onwards have reversed audio.

Yup, I've done testing with more games and every single instance of using SB16 mode with the MK8330 results in reversed stereo. Whereas selecting SB Pro results in correct audio.

Though Doom and Wolfenstein 3D don't have an SB16 option, but they still play back in reversed stereo.

I also found that trying to set games to SB Pro with the AWE64 results in just mono audio (except for Duke 3D).

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-05-28, 16:01:

Though Doom and Wolfenstein 3D don't have an SB16 option, but they still play back in reversed stereo.

DOOM does have an SB16 option (which isn't obvious by just looking the setup program). Otherwise, you wouldn't get multiple SFX with stereo panning on real SB16-compatible cards.

And Wolfenstein 3-D just hacks the sound card mixer for stereo panning effects.

I also found that trying to set games to SB Pro with the AWE64 results in just mono audio (except for Duke 3D).

That's because the SB16 isn't compatible with routines used on the SBPro for digitized stereo sounds.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2024-05-28, 16:21:

DOOM does have an SB16 option (which isn't obvious by just looking the setup program). Otherwise, you wouldn't get multiple SFX with stereo panning on real SB16-compatible cards.

How does Doom detect the SB type? Is it pulling from the BLASTER environment variable or is it an internal detection routine?

If I remember correctly, using SBPro mode on a SB16 resulted in reversed stereo channels. This problem multiplied when different Sound Blaster "Compatibles" started to copy Creative's products, and now we have a very bizarre and seemingly random truth table of whether or not the channels will be reversed, not only because of which card you're using, but which sound driver, and whether or not some game tried to be clever and account for this... only to reverse the channels again that some implementation tried to "fix" to be correct in hardware.

This is very much a normal thing, even on contemporary hardware, and is not unique to the MK8330. The fact that it purports to support SB16 is most likely the source of the confusion, as this is its literal origin between Creative and Compatibles alike.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-05-28, 16:29:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2024-05-28, 16:21:

DOOM does have an SB16 option (which isn't obvious by just looking the setup program). Otherwise, you wouldn't get multiple SFX with stereo panning on real SB16-compatible cards.

How does Doom detect the SB type? Is it pulling from the BLASTER environment variable or is it an internal detection routine?

DOOM uses the DMX sound library, but it detects the SB type by checking the DSP version. Version 4.xx is for SB16 while for the SBPro is 3.xx.

I'm wrong about the problem occuring at the introduction of SB16. It seems to be even older than that:

Reverse stereo on Sound Blaster Pro & compatibles

keropi wrote on 2024-05-27, 22:43:

All I can say is that ΜΚ8330 is made exactly to datasheet specs when it comes to such connections
some games will be OK - some won't , it's just how things are :\
there have been threads over the years trying to make sense of it, like this one: Reverse stereo on Sound Blaster Pro & compatibles

hi keropi, I am having some trouble with my card and I can't seem to find any kind of contact email or info on your website pcmidi.eu, can you please give me a contact address?

Is there any way to control WSS volume on the CMI8330? I find that the FM and WSS SFX are greatly disparate in that the SFX is much louder. Thanks.

This is a very common problem, unfortunately, and is not a problem specific to the CMI8330. With that said, there should still be a mixer setting somewhere.

Kahenraz wrote on 2024-11-17, 16:40:

This is a very common problem, unfortunately, and is not a problem specific to the CMI8330. With that said, there should still be a mixer setting somewhere.

Yes, you're right... None of my WSS-compatible cards offer separate volume control for the WSS portion... So far the Aztech is the best in that the WSS is not as loud as the other cards, but it's not stable (crashes in KQ6).

Maybe someone knows something...?

If it's the WSS component, is there no mixer provided by WSS itself? WSS is more than just an API. It was released as an upgrade product on floppy disk. Maybe the mixer is included there?

The native DOS CMMIX utility should set volume levels for WSS part by default though there is a specific setting to enable SB Mixer compatibility that is disabled by default.

Kahenraz wrote on 2024-11-17, 17:20:

If it's the WSS component, is there no mixer provided by WSS itself? WSS is more than just an API. It was released as an upgrade product on floppy disk. Maybe the mixer is included there?

That's a good idea. I downloaded the original driver disks and I'll report back. Thanks

No, the only executable that is DOS compatible is the WSS emulation driver for SB compatbility... The only thing I can think of is trying to install the WSS driver in Windows 3.1, setting the volume, and seeing if it sticks in DOS...

Maybe one day someone will write a DOS executable to accomplish this.

mockingbird wrote on 2024-11-17, 16:48:

None of my WSS-compatible cards offer separate volume control for the WSS portion...

YMF71X cards have a separate mixer for SB and WSS for what it's worth, and the WSS support is very good.

badmojo wrote on 2024-11-18, 20:56:

YMF71X cards have a separate mixer for SB and WSS for what it's worth, and the WSS support is very good.

Wow! What an underdog... I never knew my YMF719 supported WSS! And it does a great job -- and more importantly, you're right! I can balance the WSS volumes perfectly. Working great in King's Quest VI. Thanks so much!

YMF719 is basically a better SB Pro than the card itself..