LED lights 😋

I never buy top-end motherboards but in my experience the onboard sound can still be noisy with regards to 'computer noise' due to GPU load, scrolling, etc.
However to fix that I prefer a USB DAC. Recently I've been using a €10 Apple usb-c DAC for my headsphones and it sounds great and also acts as a mic-in. Great thing about using a USB DAC is that you don't need any (shitty) Creative, Realtek, whatever drivers.
So to summarize, no, I don't think there's a good reason to use a discrete sound card.

"hearing the computer think"

I've found both onboard sound and USB devices pick up internal computer noise. In my studio set up, I needed a USB isolator to eliminate the noise from my USB audio interface.

In contrast, Sound Blaster Z cards have been noise-free for me. For that reason alone, I use those sound cards in my modern rigs.

I use an usb sound blaster. External volume knob, works on many pcs(I use more), sound quality is better than what my best mb has, I can also use alchemy to get eax on older titles. My vortex2 plugs into its lineIn, so I can just keep headphones/speakers on the blaster.

They serve to make things less convenient, since you now have another cable to deal with besides the HDMI/DP one. Well worth it, highly recommended! /s

elszgensa wrote on 2024-03-07, 16:15:

They serve to make things less convenient, since you now have another cable to deal with besides the HDMI/DP one. Well worth it, highly recommended! /s

In my own setup, I'm using computer speakers. Whether I plug into onboard sound or a dedicated sound card, the number of cables is exactly the same. I would think headphones would also be the same number of cables.

Not really sure how there would be more cables with a dedicated sound card?

Probably outside the scope of the original question here but I use a USB sound card with a KVM switch and now multiple computers can share it, which is pretty great IMO.

Only as a matter of convenience, and that mostly in audio interfaces like Behringer DACs that have XLR inputs so you can plug in a nice microphone. You're not going to gain anything that's actually useful in terms of audio quality.

keenmaster486 wrote on 2024-03-07, 16:23:

You're not going to gain anything that's actually useful in terms of audio quality.

As I mentioned earlier, my experience is that onboard sound and USB sound results in ground loops + system noise, whereas dedicated sound cards do not.

In that circumstance, audio quality is improved with a dedicated sound card.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-07, 16:25:

As I mentioned earlier, my experience is that onboard sound and USB sound results in ground loops + system noise, whereas dedicated sound cards do not.

In that circumstance, audio quality is improved with a dedicated sound card.

That hasn't been my experience. I've been running a Behringer UMC404 for years now and have never had any ground loops or system noise. I have several UMC202s and never get ground loops or system noise with those either. This is across several desktop computers, laptops, and new motherboards. I also help run a small radio station, an application in which we have DAC -> ADC -> DAC inherent to our audio chain, making a clean, noise-free output and input crucial, and after getting terrible results with brand new PCIe Sound Blasters and pulling our hair out, we switched to Behringers and never looked back. They've been working perfectly with no ground loop or other issues for almost 10 years now, with no noticeable degredation in audio quality despite two D/A conversions in the chain.

Am I the only one who cant get onboard sound devices to encode surround sound properly? I use a sound card so I can get 5.1 surround in all titles on an optical out.

I'm asking this in seriousness , I've tried on 2 motherboards and something doesn't work.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-07, 14:48:

I've found both onboard sound and USB devices pick up internal computer noise. In my studio set up, I needed a USB isolator to eliminate the noise from my USB audio interface.

Ground loop issues are indeed common with many USB DACs. Not all of course and my limited experience shows that it's an unfortunate combination of DAC+computer, the same DAC may not have the same issues on another computer.

keenmaster486 wrote on 2024-03-07, 16:32:

That hasn't been my experience. I've been running a Behringer UMC404 for years now and have never had any ground loops or system noise. I have several UMC202s and never get ground loops or system noise with those either. This is across several desktop computers, laptops, and new motherboards. I also help run a small radio station, an application in which we have DAC -> ADC -> DAC inherent to our audio chain, making a clean, noise-free output and input crucial, and after getting terrible results with brand new PCIe Sound Blasters and pulling our hair out, we switched to Behringers and never looked back. They've been working perfectly with no ground loop or other issues for almost 10 years now, with no noticeable degredation in audio quality despite two D/A conversions in the chain.

You're fortunate if you've never had to deal with ground loop issues. I've found them to be constant headache in my own home in conjunction computer audio.

My own studio setup has be plagued by these issues. Doesn't matter which hardware, connection types (USB, FireWire, Thunderbolt), or motherboards, the problems remained.

I went through a whole bunch of mitigation strategies including BIOS tweaks to reduce system noise, but could never eliminate it. I finally solved it with an Intona USB isolator. It was a somewhat pricey option, but worth it to get clean audio output.

konc wrote on 2024-03-07, 16:39:

Ground loop issues are indeed common with many USB DACs. Not all of course and my limited experience shows that it's an unfortunate combination of DAC+computer, the same DAC may not have the same issues on another computer.

I've generally had more issues than not with USB devices and audio noise. Even using laptops at different physical locations (e.g. different power grids).

It is a major PITA to deal with.

I've heard they still have better sound quality, but I don't know if that's true or not. Haven't used a modern sound card since the audigy. I would be curious to try one though, I might have to pick one up one day.

I use a Creative X-Fi Plat Fatality *PCIE* which was the last boards to feature Hardware EAX. Still functions under Win11 (using Alchemy) for older games. I recently upgraded my mb so it was essential to get one with an older slot. MSI MAG Z790 did.

I find the output fantastic for modern gaming too, I tried the Sandblaster G6 for a week, but returned it, I preferred my older card for clarity and richness when driving my headphones,.

The issue with "Noise" is basically eliminated on modern HDMI based audio solutions, since it is all digital.

Discrete cards that have SPDIF/Optical output should likewise have no issues. Some motherboards have this port as well.

System-hum-noise is an artifact of all-analog audio solutions. On-board devices from the 90s and early 2000s are almost always all analog, and are particularly nasty about having the hum and other noise. I insisted on getting a crystal labs card for builds during that era for that issue, along with the "Drags the computer to a grinding halt!" issues with some SoundMax based AC'97 audio solutions from that era.

On anything modern(tm), which has digital audio outputs, the need for a discrete card is basically zero.

wierd_w wrote on 2024-03-09, 06:08:

On anything modern(tm), which has digital audio outputs, the need for a discrete card is basically zero.

As long as you have something with a digital input 😉