1 Application P F CP Notes 2,-----------------------------------------------------------------------------. 3| Ambience | X | | | | 4| Luminati | X | | | | 5| Timeless (56Hz) | X | | | | 6| Timeless (60Hz) | X | | | | 7| Dowhackado | X | | | | 8| Kukoo2 | | | X | Not smooth, glitchy | 9| Copper | | X | | | 10| Sunflower | X | | | | 11| Yo | X | | | | 12| Impulse Tracker | X | | | | 13| CubicPlayer 132x43 | X | | | | 14| Tweak 256x256 | X | | | | 15| Tweak 360x480 | X | | | | 16| Tweak 376x564 | | | X | Displays, but out of sync | 17| PAL-on-VGA | | | X | Displays, but glitchy | 18| NTSC-on-VGA | | | X | Displays, but glitchy | 19|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| 20| Other notes: | 21| | 22| | 23`-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Just picked up a lightly used Samsung 204B manufactured in 2006. Very compatible. Good looking display with nice scaling. Also, no frameskipping issues on lower resolutions. It does however frameskip on VESA resolutions above 70 HZ. It is much less noticeable than other monitors I have tested, but it is still there. Fortunately I can use S3REFRSH to set all VESA resolutions to 60Hz. There does not seems to any frameskipping with 13h 70Hz DOS stuff uses (DOOM, etc).
^^ thanks for keeping this thread alive, guys! I was originally going to take all the results here & compile up a Wiki (maybe on Vogonswiki) with photos of each monitor for easy browsing, but never got around to it & I definitely don't have time anymore. Anyone want to take up the mantle?
(Don't get me wrong, if that doesn't happen it's no big deal either - the results here are super useful either way. BTW I've got some great candidates for this thread now & will submit them when I get some time.)
twitch.tv/oldskooljay - playing the obscure, forgotten & weird - most Tuesdays & Thursdays @ 6:30 PM PDT. Bonus streams elsewhen!
as we have discovered, Kukoo2 doesn't reset attribute controller address/data flip-flop before writing to horizontal pixel panning register for smooth scrolling, and some video BIOSes leave that flip-flop set after mode switch, so as result it's not properly written and screen becomes jumpy. It's not a monitor issue but rather video BIOS/intro one 😉
I finally got my hands on a Dell 2007FPb (20", 1600x1200, VGA/DVI/15kHz composite & s-video), so here's the results. I was expecting it to do a little better than this, to be honest, given how well the earlier 2001FPs do. It's a gorgeous display but I'd really recommend it for a Win98 or later machine, something where hackmodes aren't as important and you're running it in standard VESA most of the time. For a pure DOS/VGA rig stick to the 2001FP instead.
Positive: the way it upscales low-res modes (320x200, 640x480, etc.) to fill the screen looks really nice. Crisp and sharp all the way.
Monitor: Dell 2007FPb rev.A03 (manufactured Jan. 2007)
Native res: 1600x1200
Scaling: Crisp, with a tiny bit of edge smoothing
Aspect rto: 4:3
Machine: P3/500, SE440BX-3, MS-DOS 7.1 (Win98SE)
Video card: ATI Rage LT Pro
UniVBE: No
Tested by: xjas
OVERALL COMPATIBILITY RATING: 7.5/13 - disappointing
(Note: Cubic Player not tested, hence scored out of 13 rather than 14.)
1 Application P F CP Notes 2,-----------------------------------------------------------------------------. 3| Ambience | | X | | Out of range. Adjusting the demo with the | 4| Luminati | | X | | up & down arrows did not fix this. | 5| Timeless (56Hz) | X | | | Worked fine. Image displaced towards the | 6| -----------| bottom of the screen. | 7| Timeless (60Hz) | X | | | | 8| Dowhackado | | X | | Briefly displays image, then spazzes out. | 9| Kukoo2 | | | X | Smooth scrolling but some animation | 10| -----------| glitches. See wbc's explanation above. | 11| Copper | | | X | No wobble for you. Lots of black screens. | 12| Sunflower | X | | | | 13| Yo | X | | | | 14| Impulse Tracker | X | | | | 15| CubicPlayer 132x43 | -- N/A -- | Couldn’t enter 132x43 mode. | 16| Tweak 256x256 | | | X | Displayed 256x240, bottom 16 lines cut off.| 17| Tweak 360x480 | X | | | | 18| Tweak 376x564 | | X | | Black screen. No “out of range” error. | 19| -----------| NOTE: Only ~1/3 of the Tweak modes worked. | 20| PAL-on-VGA | | X | | Out of range. | 21| NTSC-on-VGA | | X | | Out of range. | 22`-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Other notes: 400x300, 512x384, 640x350 resolutions worked fine in SEA. The monitor seemed to always want to auto-adjust a second after initializing a new mode, which got annoying. I confirmed some results (DO, Copper, Kukoo2, Ambience, Luminati, Tweak, PAL/NTSC) on Thinkpad 365ED (Chips & Tech. 65545 video) to eliminate the ATI video card as source of incompatibilities.
It seems to be able to sync down to ~50Hz and up to 75Hz without issue.
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Only Timeless worked out of Tran's three demos. The 56Hz version here gets shoved down the screen a bit, but the 60Hz version runs nicely centered.
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Sunflower's fakemode looks pretty good...
Last edited by xjas on 2019-10-03, 01:06. Edited 1 time in total.
twitch.tv/oldskooljay - playing the obscure, forgotten & weird - most Tuesdays & Thursdays @ 6:30 PM PDT. Bonus streams elsewhen!
Monitor: Dell P190S Rev.A00, mfgd. March 2010
Native res: 1280x1024
Scaling: Reasonably nice. All 4:3 modes scaled full-screen to 5:4.
Aspect rto: 5:4
Machine: Thinkpad 365ED, MS-DOS 7.0 (Win95 OSR2)
Video card: Chips & Tech. 65545 1MB
UniVBE: No
Tested by: xjas
OVERALL COMPATIBILITY RATING: 10.5/13 (Cubic Player not tested)
This one does a surprisingly good job, especially considering the poor results from the 2007FP. If you don’t need the composite/s-video inputs, and don’t care about 4x3 modes getting scaled (as nicely as possible) to full 5x4, this is a much better choice.
1 Application P F CP Notes 2,-----------------------------------------------------------------------------. 3| Ambience | | X | | Out of range. Adjusting the refresh with | 4| Luminati | | X | | the arrow keys was not enough to fix it. | 5| Timeless (56Hz) | X | | | | 6| Timeless (60Hz) | X | | | | 7| Dowhackado | X | | | | 8| Kukoo2 | | | X | Same glitches present & scrolling didn’t | 9| `---| seem as smooth as the 2007FP. | 10| Copper | X | | | Wobble is a bit chunky, but not bad. Most | 11| `-----------. parts worked fine, stable image. | 12| Sunflower | X | | | | 13| Yo | X | | | | 14| Impulse Tracker | X | | | | 15| CubicPlayer 132x43 | -- N/A -- | Mode not available on this video chip. | 16| Tweak 256x256 | X | | | Displayed 250 lines by default. Adjustable | 17| `-----------. in the menu to show missing 6 lines. | 18| Tweak 360x480 | X | | | | 19| Tweak 376x564 | X | | | | 20| PAL-on-VGA | | X | | | 21| NTSC-on-VGA | | X | | | 22`-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Other notes: this monitor isn’t NEARLY as trigger-happy to auto adjust as the 2007FP, which makes for a much nicer experience. Some of the more “difficult” modes in Tweak such as 400x600.256 worked fine. Synced happily down to 48Hz and up to 75Hz.
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Dowhackado looks great but doesn't pose nice for a photo.
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An example of the uneven vertical scaling (200 -> 1024.) Some pixels are 5 lines high & some are 4, with a line of interpolation in between. Without taking a macro photo you don't really notice.
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256x256 is interpreted as a line-doubled 500p mode at 57Hz here, instead of the more typical 480p, so less pixels are "lost."
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Copper's wobble turns a bit "chunky" as the signal processor tries to compensate for the scanline offset, but it otherwise looks pretty good. This is typical of a lot of panels in my experience.
twitch.tv/oldskooljay - playing the obscure, forgotten & weird - most Tuesdays & Thursdays @ 6:30 PM PDT. Bonus streams elsewhen!
Another Dell model from the same-ish lineup, this time the budget-oriented E177FPb. I'm pretty surprised with how differently all these perform; I was expecting them to behave more-or-less the same, but there's fairly significant changes in the DSP code and processing. Note that this monitor is VGA input ONLY and doesn't have an adjustable height stand, unlike the last two.
While technically the same score as the 2007FP, the faster mode changes & fact that it doesn't automatically "auto adjust" make it less irritating to use.
Note that the Cubic Player test is still not included, as the video chip in the laptop I used won't switch into 132x43 text mode.
1 Application P F CP Notes 2,-----------------------------------------------------------------------------. 3| Ambience | | X | | Out of range. Couldn't fix by adjusting | 4| Luminati | | X | | the scan rate with the arrow keys. | 5| Timeless (56Hz) | X | | | | 6| Timeless (60Hz) | X | | | | 7| Dowhackado | X | | | | 8| Kukoo2 | | X | | Out of range. | 9| Copper | | X | | Wobble completely unsupported. The image | 10| | stayed static for a bit, then went blank.| 11| Sunflower | X | | | Fakemode showed much more pronounced bands | 12| | of unevenly scaled pixels compared to | 13| | the other Dells. | 14| Yo | X | | | | 15| Impulse Tracker | X | | | Similar to Sunflower, primitive horizontal | 16| | scaling made the font uneven. | 17| CubicPlayer 132x43 | -- N/A -- | | 18| Tweak 256x256 | | | X | Cuts off the TOP 16 pixels for some reason | 19| Tweak 360x480 | X | | | | 20| Tweak 376x564 | | X | | Out of range. | 21| PAL-on-VGA | | X | | | 22| NTSC-on-VGA | | X | | | 23`-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Other notes: mode changes and auto-adjustment are MUCH FASTER than the 2007FPb or even the P190S. A lot of Tweak modes that worked on either of those two just don't work on this one. It seems like this uses a less sophisticated DSP & scaling algorithm, trading some flexibility for faster response.
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^^ Copper's wobble effect doesn't even register. The image just stays dead still until the DSP gets too confused and the screen goes black. It re-syncs when the effect is done without you having to do anything.
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The unsophisticated scaling algorithm manifests as bands of unevenly-sized pixels, as seen here. This affects all these displays, but it seems far more pronounced on this one.
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On an image with heavy use of ordered dithering, you can see the effect in both vertical and horizontal. This was 320x200 stretched to 1280x1024. You do notice this sitting at a normal viewing distance, but of course it looks way worse in a macro shot.
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Gah! Too close! Abort!
twitch.tv/oldskooljay - playing the obscure, forgotten & weird - most Tuesdays & Thursdays @ 6:30 PM PDT. Bonus streams elsewhen!
The thread is still "current" as long as people keep adding to it. And sure, the results of some scalers would be handy to know! Keep in mind not all "TVs"/monitors handle not-quite-standard HDMI modes equally well, so there's another point of failure that's not related to the scaler itself. (Especially since manufacturers of consumer living room-oriented TVs like to get really lazy... and HDMI is the worst PC video standard since RF, IMHO.)
A little word of caution on the testing suite I made up - some of the tests (Kukoo2, Copper, Dowhackado, 132x43 text mode) are more GPU dependent than I originally thought (well, I already knew Copper was totally GPU dependent, but you get the idea.) Just check the discussion in the last couple pages here. I still think those results are useful to have, but also need to be taken with a grain of salt.
twitch.tv/oldskooljay - playing the obscure, forgotten & weird - most Tuesdays & Thursdays @ 6:30 PM PDT. Bonus streams elsewhen!
The thread is still "current" as long as people keep adding to it. And sure, the results of some scalers would be handy to know!
A little word of caution on the testing suite I made up - some of the tests (Kukoo2, Copper, Dowhackado, 132x43 text mode) are more GPU dependent than I originally thought (well, I already knew Copper was totally GPU dependent, but you get the idea.) Just check the discussion in the last couple pages here. I still think those results are useful to have, but also need to be taken with a grain of salt.
Thanks for the info regarding GPU compatibility, I usually use a Voodoo 3 for VGA output and I no longer have a CRT to establish a baseline with ot, but I do have some other PCI cards I could try .
Once I get my Crestron unit, I will test it out and more formally test de Gefen VGA to DVI Dcaler Plus as well .
A list of known working GPUs (when used with CRTs) would help avoid blaming monitors or scalers for GPU fails .
Voodoo3 should be OK, they're known for having good DOS mode compatibility. Nothing particularly will "break" on the wrong video card, but you'd notice stuff not displaying right or showing glitches depending on what it is. It's more of a crapshoot with later WinXP+ era AGP or PCIe cards.
twitch.tv/oldskooljay - playing the obscure, forgotten & weird - most Tuesdays & Thursdays @ 6:30 PM PDT. Bonus streams elsewhen!
Thanks for this topic ! I have a Samsung 930B and is good to see it tested OK: (11/14, good) by ahyeadude. Can I use my 486DX4-100 with a 2Mb VLB CL5428 to test a Dell 1908FP with the test suite ? Or do I should I use a Pentium computer with PCI with this test ? I also want to test my old Nokia 446XS CRT on same card just for a comparison.
Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun
One of these days I have to subject the OSSC to this torture test. Using a CRT as the output device because enough monitors choke on these modes without an extra device in the chain!
I thought it would be interesting to test the Dell 2007FPb rev. A12, since xjas already tested rev. A03. Result difference is very minor though. Still looking for a replacement 2001FP...
Note: Serial numbers ending in "L" have an S-IPS panel. Serial numbers ending in "S" have an S-PVA panel.
1Monitor: Dell 2007FPb rev. A12 (May 2012) - S-IPS panel 2Native res: 1600x1200 3Scaling: Crisp, with a tiny bit of edge smoothing 4Aspect rto: 4:3 5Machine: K6-III+ 550Mhz, Asus P5A, MS-DOS 7.1 6Video card: NVIDIA RIVA128ZX 7UniVBE: No 8Tested by: mOBSCENE 9 10OVERALL COMPATIBILITY RATING: 9.5/14 - alright. 11 12 Application P F CP Notes 13,-----------------------------------------------------------------------------. 14| Ambience | | X | | Out of range. Adjusting the demo with the | 15| Luminati | | X | | up & down arrows did not fix this. | 16| Timeless (56Hz) | X | | | Worked fine. Image displaced towards the | 17 |-----------| bottom of the screen. | 18| Timeless (60Hz) | X | | | | 19| Dowhackado | | | X | Bottom section has glitches, | 20 |-----------| but this might be intended(?) | 21| Kukoo2 | X | | | | 22| Copper | | | X | "Wobble" sections blank the screen. | 23| Sunflower | X | | | | 24| Yo | X | | | (Nice PC speaker beeps.) | 25| Impulse Tracker | X | | | Won't play the songs, but display is fine. | 26| CubicPlayer 132x43 | X | | | | 27| Tweak 256x256 | | | X | Displayed 256x240, bottom 16 lines cut off.| 28| Tweak 360x480 | X | | | | 29| Tweak 376x564 | | X | | Black screen. No “out of range” error. | 30| PAL-on-VGA | | X | | Out of range. | 31| NTSC-on-VGA | | X | | Out of range. | 32|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| 33| Other notes: No option to disable auto-adjusting. Also seems to have limited| 34| memory to store display settings: when BIOS screen is auto- | 35| adjusted, DOS screen does not properly align, and vice versa. | 36`-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Been wanting to add to this thread for a while and the acquisition of an Eizo Flexscan seemed like the perfect monitor to try this out. Much more impressive than any of the LCD panels I've tried previously.
1Monitor: Eizo Flexscan 9070S 2Native res: Unknown 3Scaling: Unknown 4Aspect rto: 4:3 5Machine: 486DX/50, DOS 6.22 6Video card: 2theMax ET4000 W32i 2MB 7UniVBE: N/A 8Tested by: Brassic Gamer 9 10OVERALL COMPATIBILITY RATING: 11 13.5/14 - Pretty awesome! 12 13 Application P F CP Notes 14,-----------------------------------------------------------------------------. 15| Ambience | X | | | Vertically squashed, noticeable flicker. | 16| Luminati | X | | | As above. | 17| Timeless (56Hz) | X | | | | 18| Timeless (60Hz) | X | | | | 19| Dowhackado | X | | | | 20| Kukoo2 | X | | | | 21| Copper | | | X | Bars great, wobble partial, no line fade, | 22| | | | | flood partial, zoom fine, water works, | 23| | | | | y-zoom & wobble mostly yes, next bit no. | 24| Sunflower | X | | | | 25| Yo | X | | | | 26| Impulse Tracker | X | | | | 27| CubicPlayer 132x43 | X | | | | 28| Tweak 256x256 | X | | | | 29| Tweak 360x480 | X | | | | 30| Tweak 376x564 | X | | | | 31| PAL-on-VGA | | X | | | 32| NTSC-on-VGA | | X | | | 33|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| 34| Other notes: | 35| | 36| | 37`-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
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