Well, it has larger wavetable banks. Doesn't necessarily mean it sounds better, though. To me it felt like the XG50 had the better-sounding instruments in Doom or Duke3D, but I might be prejudiced since I owned that card back in the late 90s.

But I have to admit the SCVA in SC55 mode has its own flair. Drums might be weaker, but instruments feel softer and warmer to the ear. I am currently playing one of the Doomworld Cacoward 2021 winners, "Tarnsman's Projectile Hell", with it, which also uses some tracks from Duke3D. Naturally, the SCVA shines here. So far I've yet to find a song that doesn't sound at least good on it.

There are several different versions of the XG50 and two different versions of the XG100. The first XG50 is the one that shipped with FF7, was also available for purchase through Yamaha, and only functional on Windows 95/98/ME. Then there is the VSTi version, which is the one that everyone is using now. The VSTi has 128-note polyphony and seems to use the same bank as the one that shipped with FF7, but the XG Engine is a newer version. Then you have the Windows XP version of the XG50, which (on paper) is several times more powerful than the VSTi, with 256-note polyphony, improved soundbank, and greater sound quality/audio output that can go all the way up to 24-bit/96khz, with some hacking. The XG100 has two versions, the first one is for Windows 95/98/ME and replaces the XG50. This one does not have PVL and requires a separate Yamaha PVL synth install. The second version (made for more powerful hardware builds) has PVL, hence the "S-YXG100-PVL" designation and the 137-instrument PVL soundbank. Apparently, when Yamaha pulled the plug on the XG soft-synths, all of the S-YXG50 synths except the VSTi version had been upgraded to the final version of the XG Engine through patches and could do 256-note polyphony. There are also hacked versions of the XG50 that replace the default bank with the bank from the XG soundcards, modules, or keyboard synths.

RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2022-02-18, 14:26:

There are several different versions of the XG50 and two different versions of the XG100...
Then you have the Windows XP version of the XG50, which (on paper) is several times more powerful than the VSTi, with 256-note polyphony, improved soundbank, and greater sound quality/audio output that can go all the way up to 24-bit/96khz, with some hacking...

I have never met with the WinXP version of S-YXG50 that you described. Where can I get more info about it? Any references? The standard XP version has the exact same feature set as the VSTi version:

BTW, even the VSTi version can be used at 24-bit/96khz but it does not sound any better than using it at 16-bit/44.1khz since the samples themselves in the 4MB bank are not that high quality. This is also true for the XP version.

There's a bunch of few-years-old threads about the XG soft-synth on here where you can find all sorts of information about the various versions, but you have to wade through a lot of posts. I was looking at some of them earlier and picked up some tidbits. Here is a section from a modified Yamaha README file that I found elsewhere, from an install package, that covers the various soft-synths. These are obviously not the VSTi or WDM versions of the XG50 and are the "retail packaging", so they differ from what most seem to be using at this point.

=========== S-YXG100 PVL =============
Tone generator section
Tone generation method PCM / WAVE TABLE
Number of parts 16 parts
Polyphony 256 notes
Number of sounds : 676 instruments + 21 drum kits
(XG mode: 480 instruments + 9 drum kits + 2 SFX kits)
Tone generator modes XG / GM / TG300B

Dynamic filter section
Filters Dynamic filters for each note

Format of Sound Engine S/VA Synthesis System (VLR algorithm)

Maximum Polyphony 4 or 8 (Last in First Out priority), depending on your PC.

Number of sounds 137 VL-XG instruments (included in the total of 256 preset instruments)
6 Custom instruments
64 Internal instruments

=========== S-YXG100 (For Windows98) =============
Tone generator section
Tone generation method PCM / WAVE TABLE
Number of parts 16 parts
Polyphony 256 notes
Number of sounds : 676 instruments + 21 drum kits
(XG mode: 480 instruments + 9 drum kits + 2 SFX kits)
Tone generator modes XG / GM / TG300B

Dynamic filter section
Filters Dynamic filters for each note
Tone generator section
Virtual Acoustic Synthesis
Maximum Polyphony 1 note
Number of sounds 256 instruments

=========== S-YXG50 (For Windows98/2000) =============
Tone generator section
Tone generation method PCM / WAVE TABLE
Number of parts 16 parts
Polyphony 256 notes
Number of sounds 676 sounds + 21 drumkits / SFX kits
(XGmode: 480 sounds + 11 drum kits / SFX kits)
Tone generator modes XG / GM / TG300B

Dynamic filter section
Filters Dynamic filters for each note

Effect section
Reverb 11 types
Chorus 11 types
Variation 43 types (distortion, delay, etc.)

============ S-YG20 =======
Tone generator section
Tone generation method PCM / WAVE TABLE
Number of parts 16 parts
Polyphony 32 notes
Number of sounds 360 sounds + 9 drumkits + 2 SFX banks
Tone generator modes XG / GM

Effect section
Effect types Reverb

It's interesting that the XP version had these options to adjust CPU usage, switch between 2 and 4 MB or adjust sampling rate. The VSTi doesn't have that, but Evgeny maxed out all settings by default anyway and I doubt anyone would want to go lower.

That being said, wishing for an edition of the SCVA which is running with SC55 preset by default...

Trelokk wrote on 2022-02-18, 19:52:

It's interesting that the XP version had these options to adjust CPU usage, switch between 2 and 4 MB or adjust sampling rate. The VSTi doesn't have that, but Evgeny maxed out all settings by default anyway and I doubt anyone would want to go lower.

That being said, wishing for an edition of the SCVA which is running with SC55 preset by default...

1. In case of a VSTi plugin 'adjusting sample rate' does not have any sense since the VST host sets the sample rate and the plugin only gets the info of what sample rate is required by the host.
2. Measuring and constraining its own CPU usage would be also problematic from the plugin's side since it's just a dll that the host loads to its own process and CPU usage belongs to processes/threads that the host owns.
3. With the help of an ini file you can also define what other voice table file you would like to use instead of the embedded one:

INI file have to have the same name as the dll file, but with the ini extension. All settings have to be placed in the [SYXG50] section.
VoiceTable - Name of the voice table file. If not specified, SXGBIN41.TBL from the DLL resources will be used.
Process - Enables additional sound processing. The exact purpose is unknown. Disabled by default.
XGLite - If 0, Full XG will be used. If 1 or 2, restriction to the XGLite v1 or v2 will be enabled.
DebugPanel - Displays panel with detailed debug information instead of the standard user interface.
DisableGUI - Disables GUI completely. As the result VSTi works as the SGP.DLL from the Yamaha MidRadio 6.

It's nice that the SYXG50 has that feature with adjustments via ini file, but I'd wish for SCVA to have it as well. Not that it isn't easy to load the plugin via FSMP and presets. Got it set up with LoopBe1 now and it works just fine.

It's probably weird, but I am one of those guys who likes his dlls with all resources embedded and no extra settings needed, fully portable. Just like what Evgeny did with the SYXG50. The Virtual Sound Canvas (vsc.dll) also works like that, apparently. But it doesn't sound as good as the SVCA. (Even though, depending on the MIDI track and which instruments are used, I gotta say it sometimes manages to come somewhat close.)

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MT-32-c … _computer_games Return to Zork "was designed to be output via Roland SC-55 in MT-32 mode with GM percussion", how to do that with Roland SC VA + Falcosoft Midi Player? I managed to send custom sysex command gs_mt32-mode.syx (i'm doing this the right way?), but what about GM percussion part?

KainXVIII wrote on 2022-08-07, 13:05:

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MT-32-c … _computer_games Return to Zork "was designed to be output via Roland SC-55 in MT-32 mode with GM percussion", how to do that with Roland SC VA + Falcosoft Midi Player? I managed to send custom sysex command gs_mt32-mode.syx (i'm doing this the right way?), but what about GM percussion part?

1. Yes, using GS_MT32-mode.syx is the right way to set SC-VA to MT-32 compatible mode.
2. You simply need to set the program of channel 10 to 0 (zero) instead of 127. Program 127 on channel 10 is the MT-32 compatible drum set and Program 0 is the default GM Standard set.

Falcosoft wrote on 2022-08-07, 20:18:

KainXVIII wrote on 2022-08-07, 13:05:

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MT-32-c … _computer_games Return to Zork "was designed to be output via Roland SC-55 in MT-32 mode with GM percussion", how to do that with Roland SC VA + Falcosoft Midi Player? I managed to send custom sysex command gs_mt32-mode.syx (i'm doing this the right way?), but what about GM percussion part?

2. You simply need to set the program of channel 10 to 0 (zero) instead of 127. Program 127 on channel 10 is the MT-32 compatible drum set and Program 0 is the default GM Standard set.

Where is this option? 😮

KainXVIII wrote on 2022-08-07, 22:16:

Where is this option? 😮

On the main interface of FSMP:

Falcosoft wrote on 2022-08-07, 22:41:

KainXVIII wrote on 2022-08-07, 22:16:

Where is this option? 😮

On the main interface of FSMP:

fsmp1.png

Thanks! SysEx option was much easier to find 😅

Trelokk wrote on 2022-02-18, 19:52:

That being said, wishing for an edition of the SCVA which is running with SC55 preset by default...

For what it is worth, I made this launcher for Sound Canvas VA about a year ago.
It starts "SOUND Canvas VA.exe". Which is actually SAVIHost.
It waits either 3 or 6 seconds for SCVA to get ready. The 6 seconds variant is for particularly slow systems.
Finally it sends the Sysex commands for mapping all 16 channels to SC-55. It sends this to the Windows midi mapper port.

The launcher uses mmsystem API. It was tested to work in Windows XP x86 and Windows 7 x64.

Of course certain midi reset commands mess it up again. Especially the drum channel often reverts back to SC-8820.

Actually I noted this bug: When you set SCVA to SC-55 map mode manually, with the 4 option drop down box.
Then while playing "duke3d - alienz.mid".
In the SCVA orange display, select drum channel part 10 with the left/right arrow buttons and click on "POWER".
Another screen pops up, showing as active "SC-55 Map" and "POWER".
But POWER is not active at all, because it does not sound like it. Only when you click on it, in the last mentioned screen, does it actually enable.

gerwin wrote on 2022-12-09, 00:26:

Of course certain midi reset commands mess it up again. Especially the drum channel often reverts back to SC-8820.

Why not put it in SC-55 mode by loading a VST preset?

realnc wrote on 2022-12-09, 08:41:

gerwin wrote on 2022-12-09, 00:26:

Of course certain midi reset commands mess it up again. Especially the drum channel often reverts back to SC-8820.

Why not put it in SC-55 mode by loading a VST preset?

Trelokk uses VST Midi Driver and the currently available best fork of this driver does not support loading VST presets (it's a bug). So for VST Midi Driver users all VSTi plugins always use their respecting default mode. It's not a big problem for e.g. S-YXG50 but not ideal for SC-VA.

realnc wrote on 2022-12-09, 08:41:

Why not put it in SC-55 mode by loading a VST preset?

Thanks. I was actually not aware of this functionality.
I just made a "SOUND Canvas VA SC-55.fxb" preset which is, seemingly, automatically loaded by Savihost.
In practice it is about the same thing as the launcher. With the same bug also.
I will tinker with it a little more...

At this point none of the VST Midi Driver variants can be recommended. Development of the new versions seems to have stopped, so it's just a matter of time before they break again, if they haven't already. LoopMIDI + FSMP is my current setup and I got used to it. With a small batch file I can toggle both programs on and off as needed.

Trelokk wrote on 2022-12-11, 18:28:

At this point none of the VST Midi Driver variants can be recommended.

I don't know exactly what you mean. VST Synths or the interfacing hosts?
My humble opinion in that regard, is that the MIDI standard is flawed for the use cases here, where the synth mode is important and the defaults undesirable. Midi is lacking levels of configuration such as general configuration, application specific configuration and track specific configuration.
GS/GM-resets are kinda mandatory because some tracks and games tend to mess up the configuration, whilst GS/GM-resets have little regard for preserving your general configuration.
So often I think it is better to use Fluidsynth+Soundfont and be done with it. I can compile Fluidsynth + mod soundfonts as a master override, and Fluidsynth seems resistant to games and tracks that misbehave.

I mean the driver ofc, not VSTis in general. Soundfonts are easier to use and will remain the mainstream solution. VSTis are rather for enthusiasts who want to get as close to vintage MIDI playback as possible, even if some soundfonts actually get close enough to cover gaming purposes.

Does anyone have experience with the EmuSC emulator? I am currently trying to get it working to see how it compares to the SCVA plugin.
I have compiled it for Windows and managed to obtain latest binaries. ROM files are in place, port has been set up in loopMIDI and Coolsoft MIDIMapper, yet I am unable to get any sound out of it. Is there any magic spell that needs to be cast before or what?