VOGONS


Covox Sound Master Reverse Engineering / Replica

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Reply 240 of 264, by Fagear

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Sorry for a long delay from the last update.
https://youtu.be/ix2NEqVtKmk

I've worked a bit with that "first version" replica and moved forward a bit.
First iteration had very noisy and quiet output. That's logical, because all analog parts (opamps, AY, switch) were getting power directly from noisy ISA bus. I've rewired power to opamps through a 9V regulator and through 5V regulator to AY and a switch. That significantly brought the noise down.
Also I've assembled small PCB with R2R DAC (SG0309 replacement), connected it to the CSM and checked: it was producing sound.
Next, I've started to re-think the mixer. There are three audio channels from AY a one channel from R2R DAC. Covox used emitter follower for the DAC and output of that was very low as a result. But instead of amplifying the signal from the DAC Covox had chosen to lower signal from AY by the factor of 100 and drown it the noise.
I'm going to make a more balanced mixer, but for that I need to boost signal from the DAC. And I'm not very good in designing analog transistor circuits... I've tried different amps on one, on two transistors and even on opamp... But didn't manage to get the same sound as on the original, original board just has more bass somehow. I need to experiment more.
Overall, I've got the same output levels from AY and DAC as on originals board but without excessive noise.
But next I've found that not all of the games were detecting my CSM replica. I was still using AY8910 (and YM2149 earlier), but original board used AY8930. Luckely this time I've got my own AY8930 and installed it into the replica board. All problems with board detection in games went away.
Next, I've decided to explorer differences between ICs and wrote a couple of DOS programs. Using some hacks and undocumented tricks I've managed to learn how to distinguish AY8910, AY8930, YM2149 and KC89C72 between each other on software level. Definitely some games use extended mode of AY8930, so AY8930 is critical for fully functioning CSM.
If we'll ignore detection through extended registers, other ICs will work in the CSM but but another caveat. AY8930 also has additional frequency divider and it is used in CSM. Other ICs do not have that divider and will sound out of tune. That can be fixed with another 74HC74 but there is no place for one more DIP-14 and it will disturb "original-like" look.
There are some more problems with YM2149 in particular regarding the way DAC DMA requests are done in the CSM. Source of those requests is AY synth itself: for DRQ generation channel C is disconnected from the audio output and feeded into logic through one transistor. In idle AY8910 and AY8930 have 0 volts on the output and with enabled generation levels are going towards +5 V, but YM2149 in idle state has ~2.5 V on the output. That means that from the point of transistor that feeds DRQ logic YM2149 always has its output in the "1" state regardless of presence of any generation on its output. No DRQ will be generated with YM2149 in place.
Maybe there is a simple way to modify that circuit to enable DRQs with YM2149, I didn't dig into that yet.
Some games don't use DMA at all, writing PCM data directly into the port, CSM allows both ways of accessing the DAC.
Next, I've replaced joystick connectors (I had "female" connector instead of "male" ones from the first test), but I couldn't find any game that supports joysticks on CSM. All games that I've tried either do not support any joystick at all or support only standard 15-pin PC joystick.
Maybe there are some games that do support Atari-like joysticks on CSM but I had no time to test several dozens of games to find one. So I can not for sure claim that joysticks are working as intended because address in GAL was somewhat guessed and can be different on the board with original GAL.
To somehow test joystick functions I've wrote another DOS program. It displays which buttons are activated on both joystick ports. I've assembled gamepad imitator and found some Atari-compatible joystick and those work both on my replica and on the original board (but with mine GAL).
Replica board works and is been updated. Someone can already think about writing/porting players for ZX Spectrum music to support CSM.

dionb wrote on 2021-06-10, 23:59:

Little bump: I was browsing around a bit and came across this:
.../product/pechatnaya-plata-covox-sound-master/
Looks like the original - noisy - replica.

Yeah... There is that copycat that picks up everything he can find online, finished or not, working or not, does not ask for any permission and disregards everyone who did the real work and just sells all that for his own profit.
I highly discourage everyone to buy anything on that site. First, there are plenty (guaranteed) non-working PCBs. Second, almost all of those PCBs with card edge connectors have tinned contacts that will destroy slots on your motherboards with time. Those should be gold-plated but that means that PCBs will be more expensive, he can not afford that! Third, I will refuse to buy anything, even working and tested, from a man with those kind of principles.

In the meantime, I've tried that AVR-AY PCB with ATmega48V in my replica and it just refuses to produce any sound... Need to investigate that.

Also I've assembled "SMD no-GAL" board but didn't test it yet.

New BIG soundcard: FMonster.
Covox Sound Master replica
Innovation SSI-2001 replica & DuoSID.
My audio/video collection.

Reply 241 of 264, by kompas-rus

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Fagear
Гражданин, ну что Вы говорите за ерунду? Я делаю это ради наживы? Чушь, Я продаю эти платы за копейки. Во вторых, я могу себе позволить и золото и платину)) Ну не надо так, Вы лично в моих глазах очень опустились гражданин миллионер)) ПиСи. Люди хотят платы, Вы же как жлобы не можете им это предоставить.

Guy, what are you talking about nonsense? Am I doing this for profit? Nonsense. I sell these PCBs for pennies. Secondly, I can afford both gold and platinum)) Well, don't be so, you personally, in my eyes, are very low, Mr. millionaire)). People want a PCB, you, like goons, cannot provide them with this, so I will do it.

Reply 242 of 264, by Benedikt

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kompas-rus wrote on 2021-07-06, 18:02:

Well, don't be so, you personally, in my eyes, are very low, Mr. millionaire)).

Everyone's entitled to their views, I guess...

Back to the card, or rather to its programming model:

Judging by the contents of the AY8930's data sheet I assume that the PSG is controlled via a register pair in the IO address space, with the odd IO address mapped to the PSG's address latch and the even IO address mapped to the PSG's currently selected data register.
It this assumption correct? If so: Are these two the first registers in the card's IO address window or does it maybe allocate the first four to the AY8930's "input control signals"?

Reply 243 of 264, by matze79

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Benedikt wrote on 2021-07-06, 20:10:

Everyone's entitled to their views, I guess..

oh yes,.. obviously you`re right.
Hey also go work just for fun.. haha

https://www.retrokits.de - blog, retro projects, hdd clicker, diy soundcards etc
https://www.retroianer.de - german retro computer board

Reply 244 of 264, by Benedikt

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Benedikt wrote on 2021-07-06, 20:10:

Judging by the contents of the AY8930's data sheet I assume that the PSG is controlled via a register pair in the IO address space, with the odd IO address mapped to the PSG's address latch and the even IO address mapped to the PSG's currently selected data register.
It this assumption correct? If so: Are these two the first registers in the card's IO address window or does it maybe allocate the first four to the AY8930's "input control signals"?

Got my answers from this lengthy post from 2018. I must have overread the relevant pieces earlier.
With that information it should be possible to translate Tandy PSG events to CSM events and thereby expand software support for the card.
I'm currently working on the loosely related topic of Tandy PSG to CMS translation, which appears to be relatively straightforward.

Reply 245 of 264, by Physikant

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Hey,
just wanted to ask what happened to this project! Was Fagear so furious about this kompas-guy that he stopped to work on this project at all?

Reply 246 of 264, by Fagear

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kompas-rus wrote on 2021-07-06, 18:02:

you personally, in my eyes, are very low

Do you think I care? Not in the slightest.

kompas-rus wrote on 2021-07-06, 18:02:

People want a PCB, you, like goons, cannot provide them with this, so I will do it.

Don't pretend to be some kind of Robin Hood, all you do is copy others boards (even when those are defective) and dump those onto people who want to get working ones. You don't hesitate to remove all copyrights and credits in the progress. I'm not even talking about asking anything in the first place.
Then you dump any responsibility by marking boards as "not tested" and leaving all problems to your customers to resolve for themselves.
Sometimes those people find original authors and ask for support for boards that were not intended to be public in the first place, because those were not fully debugged and finished (and you just stole a work-in-progress ones).
And then those people get sad and disappointed in projects or start to mock original authors of those projects because "they did a bad boards" when they had nothing to do with those.
I can confidently say that, because I saw multiple boards of my design on your site that I can guarantee some will not work as intended. I can not speak for others' copied boards, but I assume that situation there is not any better.
So you are just making a disservice both for your customers and for original authors.

Physikant wrote on 2023-08-07, 05:28:

Hey,
just wanted to ask what happened to this project! Was Fagear so furious about this kompas-guy that he stopped to work on this project at all?

I was not furious, I was (and am) just disappointed.
But that will not prevent me from working on the project.
The fact is, it's almost finished. I've resolved all issues with power, with output stage and with DAC buffering. I just don't have time to publish anything about that. I'm busy with other projects at the moment.
But both TH replica and SMD mini-board are finished at the moment. I just have to order both boards to verify that now everything works as intended and I didn't make any mistakes in final layouts.

The attachment 2022-10-23 01.05.15.jpg is no longer available

New BIG soundcard: FMonster.
Covox Sound Master replica
Innovation SSI-2001 replica & DuoSID.
My audio/video collection.

Reply 247 of 264, by Physikant

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Hey man, a quick pcb order is done in a few minutes 😀 Perhaps do it inbetween? Pretty please? 😁

Reply 248 of 264, by awgamer

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I was thinking maybe you got thrown into the meat grinder going on in your neck of the woods, don't they know this is more important?

Reply 249 of 264, by Fagear

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awgamer wrote on 2023-08-08, 21:00:

I was thinking maybe you got thrown into the meat grinder going on in your neck of the woods, don't they know this is more important?

Fortunatelly no, I'm outside of that scope.

Physikant wrote on 2023-08-08, 20:53:

Hey man, a quick pcb order is done in a few minutes 😀 Perhaps do it inbetween? Pretty please? 😁

I'm glad to make some orders but because of the reasons mentioned above many China-based manufacturers stopped sending to Russia.
We have local PCB plants but those are much more expensive and are not suited for prototyping.
There are some new agents that can transfer boards from China but those have to be tested and I have no time for that yet.

New BIG soundcard: FMonster.
Covox Sound Master replica
Innovation SSI-2001 replica & DuoSID.
My audio/video collection.

Reply 250 of 264, by carlostex

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You’re a good guy Fagear, happy you’re ok.

Reply 251 of 264, by Physikant

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Man thats harsh. I can offer you that I order PCBs for you and ship them to you from germany. I checked, PCBs are not on the list of things that are restricted from shipping to russia! I really want this card to happen and am willing to help.
I would pay for the PCBs and shipping to you. The only thing I want is a single THT-Version PCB for my collection. And that would be an expensive PCB comparing to the price from this kompas-guy.

Reply 253 of 264, by carlostex

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For a few weeks now there’s this eBay seller selling Covox Sound Master clones, and claims that the cards he’s selling were designed and built by him. Unless this person is Fagear, I really, really hope that it is not stolen work, specially considering the price he is selling these things.

Guy went to trouble to replicate the “Proudly made in USA” sticker.

By the way, this card has DIGPAK drivers, so there’s some PCM support to get out of it.

Reply 256 of 264, by scroeffie

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380 euros ?
about the AY-3-8930 i found them for 4 euros a piece

Reply 257 of 264, by SuperDeadite

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scroeffie wrote on 2024-06-11, 07:44:

380 euros ?
about the AY-3-8930 i found them for 4 euros a piece

Nice price if they are real. Most of the chips sold online are repainted 8910s. It's very difficult to tell the difference as little software actually uses the enhanced mode. The MSX "Darky Sound Cartridge" uses two of these chips, and it's getting very difficult to find reputable sellers sadly.

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, DreamBlaster S2, X2, McFly, E-Wave, QWave, CrystalBlaster C2, Yucatan FX, BeepBlaster

Reply 258 of 264, by Fagear

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carlostex wrote on 2024-06-07, 16:12:

For a few weeks now there’s this eBay seller selling Covox Sound Master clones, and claims that the cards he’s selling were designed and built by him. Unless this person is Fagear, I really, really hope that it is not stolen work, specially considering the price he is selling these things.

I'm not connected with that seller in any way.
And the layout does not match my PCBs.

New BIG soundcard: FMonster.
Covox Sound Master replica
Innovation SSI-2001 replica & DuoSID.
My audio/video collection.

Reply 259 of 264, by Physikant

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Thats me. I started new, made my own layout as close to the original as possible (matching images). I know now what fagear means with noisy card! I sourced 4 of these chips from australia (at 56€/piece). It took 2 iterations to get the PCB working, had some issues with the strange joystick pinouts and the mixer chip. If anybody repeats my work: do yourself a favor and only use original Lattice GALs. I had a few from different brands and it was A PAIN to find out that actually the GAL was my problem, not the code I wrote.
So nothing stolen here. Just me tired of waiting and making more than one PCB to rule out bad chips, selling the other one. I even designed a metal slot bracket (its custom made for this card) and the sticker.
If you think the price is high, just redo what I did and look at the time you took. Thats far less than minimum wage in my country...
I'm not getting rich here. It's not like there is a market for these PCBs, I'm glad if even this one is sold.