What's the reason for not using the onboard LAN?

Is this under Win9x?

I recently did some testing, and I always got lower network file transfer speeds under Win9x compared to Win2K or WinXP. More details here: Network card transfer speeds on retro rigs

I have a gigabit nic in my P4 that runs ME and it's network transfer speed is similar.

100Mbps is 12.5MBps. With overhead (OS stuff, hand shaking, etc) is always much less. 12.5MBps is 12,500KBps and you are 6,700KBps (6.7MBps) so about 1/2 of max which is typical.

pete8475 wrote on 2025-02-02, 22:54:

I have a gigabit nic in my P4 that runs ME and it's network transfer speed is similar.

I was transferring files at 45Mbit average (5.6MB) from one XP vintage to my newest computer a few days ago, but there were many small files.....

LAN speeds are measured in Mbps, not MBps. It helps if you convert units to Mbps. Then you get about 54Mbps. That's not bad under Windows 98.

Not only does Win98 have a rather inefficient TCP stack, it also doesn't have dynamic receive window scaling, and with the default receive window you'll struggle to get over 60 Mbps in any situation. You can use TCP Optimizer to hack around a bit, but don't expect miracles from Win98. Good TCP was one of the many benefits of upgrading to Win2k/XP.

Also, if your Gb NIC is running at 100Mbps link it might be an idea to check your cabling.

OVERK|LL wrote on 2025-02-02, 22:31:

What's the reason for not using the onboard LAN?

I tried several drivers, they all installed successfully, but then it doesn't get the IP (in winipcfg it gives an error and the adapter is missing)
The onboard LAN works under XP.

dionb wrote on 2025-02-03, 07:23:

Also, if your Gb NIC is running at 100Mbps link it might be an idea to check your cabling.

I don't know why. Both under 98 and under xp it's 100mbps. I've tried several options, but it's always the same.
I've also swapped cables with my main computer (where it's 1000mbps).
I've also tried a direct connection between the two computers.

amxcs wrote on 2025-02-03, 10:34:

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I don't know why. Both under 98 and under xp it's 100mbps. I've tried several options, but it's always the same.
I've also swapped cables with my main computer (where it's 1000mbps).
I've also tried a direct connection between the two computers.

In that case maybe one of the pins in the RJ45 socket in the NIC isn't making proper contact. If you know the cable is good and different OS (andr drivers) give same result, it sounds like hardware.

Ok, I'll test with a multimeter.

amxcs wrote on 2025-02-03, 10:34:

I tried several drivers, they all installed successfully, but then it doesn't get the IP (in winipcfg it gives an error and the […]
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OVERK|LL wrote on 2025-02-02, 22:31:

What's the reason for not using the onboard LAN?

I tried several drivers, they all installed successfully, but then it doesn't get the IP (in winipcfg it gives an error and the adapter is missing)
The onboard LAN works under XP.

dionb wrote on 2025-02-03, 07:23:

Also, if your Gb NIC is running at 100Mbps link it might be an idea to check your cabling.

I don't know why. Both under 98 and under xp it's 100mbps. I've tried several options, but it's always the same.
I've also swapped cables with my main computer (where it's 1000mbps).
I've also tried a direct connection between the two computers.

Sounds like a resource or detection issue then if it works under XP. Both it and the Toilet Paper Link are Realtek chips, I've always found 3COM to be the most compatible in old stuff, followed by Intel. I have a few 905C's and I think a 905B kicking around, they generally perform better than Realtek stuff of the same era, but as somebody else noted, Win9x isn't going to have the same throughput as something based on NT.

Circling back to the onboard NIC, are you saying it doesn't show up in Device Manager after you install the drivers?

OVERK|LL wrote on 2025-02-03, 13:21:

Circling back to the onboard NIC, are you saying it doesn't show up in Device Manager after you install the drivers?

It shows up in the device manager. And in Control panel -> Network it also shows up. I tried setting the ip addresses manually, but the router doesn't see it and as I said above in winipcfg it gives an error and the adapter is missing

amxcs wrote on 2025-02-03, 14:01:

OVERK|LL wrote on 2025-02-03, 13:21:

Circling back to the onboard NIC, are you saying it doesn't show up in Device Manager after you install the drivers?

It shows up in the device manager. And in Control panel -> Network it also shows up. I tried setting the ip addresses manually, but the router doesn't see it and as I said above in winipcfg it gives an error and the adapter is missing

I had the same issue (card showed up fine, no exclamation mark in device mangler, would not get an IP, same error) with my 3COM 3C509-TPO with Windows 95B and it ended up being the wrong resources being selected when the card was detected, but that's on a far older system than you are playing with (an old PS/1 486 SX/25). I'd suggest checking the resources though, because 9x can have them in conflict and not flag them and stuff then doesn't work.

Horun wrote on 2025-02-03, 03:50:

100Mbps is 12.5MBps. With overhead (OS stuff, hand shaking, etc) is always much less. 12.5MBps is 12,500KBps and you are 6,700KBps (6.7MBps) so about 1/2 of max which is typical.

pete8475 wrote on 2025-02-02, 22:54:

I have a gigabit nic in my P4 that runs ME and it's network transfer speed is similar.

I was transferring files at 45Mbit average (5.6MB) from one XP vintage to my newest computer a few days ago, but there were many small files.....

I'll do some speed testing in a few minutes. Back when I had this nic in my P3-600 I could get about 3.5 megabytes/sec which obviously sucks. I feel like it's not much faster with the P4 but I'll get the real number.

EDIT - I recently bought a new Asus router to replace my old Linksys brand one and while the link light is on I can't ping or access any network shares on the P4. I'll try a new cable later tonight.

EDIT 2 - New cable and now in the log on the router I see "(Logical Port: 2) (phyId: a) Link Up at 1000 mbps full duplex" and I can ping the IP AND VNC into it and do what I want that way but still can't access the shares from my Win 11 desktop. Tremendous.

pete8475 wrote on 2025-02-03, 21:08:

I'll do some speed testing in a few minutes. Back when I had this nic in my P3-600 I could get about 3.5 megabytes/sec which ob […]
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Horun wrote on 2025-02-03, 03:50:

100Mbps is 12.5MBps. With overhead (OS stuff, hand shaking, etc) is always much less. 12.5MBps is 12,500KBps and you are 6,700KBps (6.7MBps) so about 1/2 of max which is typical.

pete8475 wrote on 2025-02-02, 22:54:

I have a gigabit nic in my P4 that runs ME and it's network transfer speed is similar.

I was transferring files at 45Mbit average (5.6MB) from one XP vintage to my newest computer a few days ago, but there were many small files.....

I'll do some speed testing in a few minutes. Back when I had this nic in my P3-600 I could get about 3.5 megabytes/sec which obviously sucks. I feel like it's not much faster with the P4 but I'll get the real number.

EDIT - I recently bought a new Asus router to replace my old Linksys brand one and while the link light is on I can't ping or access any network shares on the P4. I'll try a new cable later tonight.

EDIT 2 - New cable and now in the log on the router I see "(Logical Port: 2) (phyId: a) Link Up at 1000 mbps full duplex" and I can ping the IP AND VNC into it and do what I want that way but still can't access the shares from my Win 11 desktop. Tremendous.

Stupid question, but do you have SMB 1.0 Client installed on 11?

OVERK|LL wrote on 2025-02-03, 23:45:

Stupid question, but do you have SMB 1.0 Client installed on 11?

Indeed I do!

I was able to access a share on that ME PC about a month ago to transfer a bunch of ISO files.

It wouldn't surprise me if some Win 11 update is the issue.

EDIT - that or maybe the router change. I'm not going to mess about with anything more tonight though, I'm tired and everything else works.

Update: am using an Intel Pro 1000/GT PCI with ProSet v18.3 XP drivers in that box. Forgot I turned off the onboard Realtek based due to slow speed and stalling issues a few years ago.
XP is not Gigabit friendly imho 😀

OVERK|LL wrote on 2025-02-03, 14:13:

amxcs wrote on 2025-02-03, 14:01:

OVERK|LL wrote on 2025-02-03, 13:21:

Circling back to the onboard NIC, are you saying it doesn't show up in Device Manager after you install the drivers?

It shows up in the device manager. And in Control panel -> Network it also shows up. I tried setting the ip addresses manually, but the router doesn't see it and as I said above in winipcfg it gives an error and the adapter is missing

I had the same issue (card showed up fine, no exclamation mark in device mangler, would not get an IP, same error) with my 3COM 3C509-TPO with Windows 95B and it ended up being the wrong resources being selected when the card was detected, but that's on a far older system than you are playing with (an old PS/1 486 SX/25). I'd suggest checking the resources though, because 9x can have them in conflict and not flag them and stuff then doesn't work.

I did a new installation of win98 and now the onboard lan card works, but the speed is the same. I tried it under winXP - the same. Apparently with my configuration this is the maximum.

amxcs wrote on 2025-02-04, 10:15:

OVERK|LL wrote on 2025-02-03, 14:13:

amxcs wrote on 2025-02-03, 14:01:

It shows up in the device manager. And in Control panel -> Network it also shows up. I tried setting the ip addresses manually, but the router doesn't see it and as I said above in winipcfg it gives an error and the adapter is missing

I had the same issue (card showed up fine, no exclamation mark in device mangler, would not get an IP, same error) with my 3COM 3C509-TPO with Windows 95B and it ended up being the wrong resources being selected when the card was detected, but that's on a far older system than you are playing with (an old PS/1 486 SX/25). I'd suggest checking the resources though, because 9x can have them in conflict and not flag them and stuff then doesn't work.

I did a new installation of win98 and now the onboard lan card works, but the speed is the same. I tried it under winXP - the same. Apparently with my configuration this is the maximum.

Good to hear you were able to get it sorted!

Got my network issues sorted, I had to toggle the Windows 11 network type to private rather than public. Presumably this changed on it's own when I replaced my old router.

Anyway I get some amazing LAN speeds to my P4 running Windows ME. 🤣