swaaye wrote on 2025-02-01, 20:04:

I wish the PS1 and N64 versions of Unreal had been completed so there would be more Unreal 1 to play. Like Daikatana and Quake 2 on N64 which are rebuilt from the ground up and almost entirely different games.

Are these PC versions for Win98x or Roms for an emulator? Sounds interesting because I liked both games you mentioned.

mombarak wrote on 2025-02-02, 07:33:

Are these PC versions for Win98x or Roms for an emulator? Sounds interesting because I liked both games you mentioned.

They are N64 (Nintendo 64) games. You could play them in an emulator.

Oh ok. I guess that means using a controller for a FPS. Something I never got used to.

myne wrote on 2025-01-31, 01:59:

Jasin Natael wrote on 2025-01-30, 18:08:

Different discussion of course......but Quake 3 was Pepsi to Unreal's Coke. Coke has always, and will always be the original. […]
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myne wrote on 2025-01-30, 15:02:

Unreal, imo took a leaf from id's book, and made a playable tech demo the story was pretty half assed compared to half life. Id […]
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Unreal, imo took a leaf from id's book, and made a playable tech demo the story was pretty half assed compared to half life.
Id did well off engine licencing with quake and quake 2.
So much so, that it's not hard to argue quake 3 was purely a tech demo. There was f all story, but that didn't matter because it was a great arena shooter.
Unreal is now entirely an engine for sale.

Different discussion of course......but Quake 3 was Pepsi to Unreal's Coke.
Coke has always, and will always be the original.
Anything else is a pale imitation.

Quake came first...
By your logic quake/doom is coke

No it didn't. Not in the USA anyway. UT was in late November and Q3 was in early December.
It was close and perhaps it doesn't really matter, but UT was first in my country anyway.

Q3's design overhaul to become a multiplayer shooter began in June 1998. UT's status was effectively a planned unreal network patch by that point.

Q3 also had some public test releases out (1.03-05 ~April-May 1999) months before UT had premiered a vendor-locked demo (September 1999)

mombarak wrote on 2025-01-30, 10:13:

I am currently playing Unreal 1 in hard on a P2 350 and a Voodoo 2 SLI setup and it is my first attempt to finish it. In the past I never got beyond level 3. The reason is quite simple, the game was not interesting enough to continue. ... Whats your opinion?
Would you recommend the Addon or is that just more of the same?

IMO Unreal is the last of its kind, of what one might consider great DooM-clone shooters. Among other things, this means that the game is not really narratively driven - rather, the variation in settings and enemies is what is supposed to keep your interest to the end. This is why some of the boring or less interesting segments can cause modern players to drop it. What's the point of trudging on when the only goal is to live? I can sympathise with that. As a kid I didn't have the luxury of just switching to a new game every time I got bored, so I kept coming back to Unreal when I ran out of other things to do and so ended up completing it. I also did complete Half-Life after hitting XEN, which I know a lot of people didn't do, so perhaps I just have a higher tolerance for bad/boring if there is a promise of good stuff later on. 😁 I will say, in the end Unreal did feel worth completing, and even quite compelling at times. Even when it hit a snag, it never seemed to bog down permanently. Haven't played the addon, so don't know what to say about that.

I'll just add that I've completed Quake 2, Half-Life, and Unreal - so you know where I'm coming from.

Graphics
People like to give Unreal awards for how it looks, and I would say that those are pretty well deserved. The engine had some cool features that its contemporaries lacked. Quake2 could have competed on engine-tech, but it was held back by boring art direction (there can only be so many brown military installations or warehouses before it becomes monotonous). I liked the weapon models in Half-Life better, but in all honesty keeping with the aesthetic they were going for, the ones in Unreal aren't bad at all. Out of all the games, Unreal comes out looking the best today with updated renderers and higher resolution texture packs, but looks nice and runs surprisingly well on even on period hardware.

Sound
The soundtrack is immersive with varying styles, and interestingly is based on some kind of semi-synth like engine which gives it a very distinct sound. Much like we like to remember the sound signature of early SoundBlaster-clones on the PC, or the music on the home consoles, Unreal has an identity that goes beyond the tunes themselves. Most are serviceable and do their job, but for me at least some really stand out and connect with the environments, helping create a feeling that you're an explorer on an alien world. My favorite tracks are ingrained in my memory and cause me to immediately recall the environments or vistas they're set in. On the whole the music is much more elusive and ethereal than the "kick ass rock/metal" in Quake2 (very appropriate for that game) or the cinematic mashup that you get in Half-Life. I don't have much to say about the sound effects, but do consider the soundscape overall very good.

Enemies
Unreal Tournament would come to feature some impressive out-of-box bots, but most of the enemies in the single player game aren't anything to marvel at AI-wise. They pose a danger due to their numbers, their location, or their armament mostly - and sometimes seem to have too much health. The Skaarj have some moves and can fake dead, so they're a bit more interesting than a lot of the other characters. There is just enough enemy variety in the game appearance-wise, but play-style wise the game could have used perhaps a little more, given its length.

Story
This is where the old-school nature of the game shows most. You're given a little text blurb that explains you're a prisoner on a ship that's crash-landed on an alien world - and you have to find a way out. Anything else story-related is basically conveyed by the design of the in-game environments, or through logs that you can read - but most people who played the game would probably have ignored all the logs outright and just blasted their way through without a second thought. It feels dated especially after Half-Life, but there is something to be said for the game's purity. It doesn't want to be an interactive movie - you really are on a journey to survive and explore, and you are free to imagine meaning and connections between things all on your own. The game doesn't take you out with video clips or force you to observe a poorly acted in-game cutscenes. Replaying Unreal feels like going back to a time when the story really didn't matter all that much, and only had to serve a premise - Unreal's very much accomplishes this. Survival is the motivation.

In conclusion
I don't think they would ever make another game like this, just because of how the landscape of single-player games changed with the advent of Half-Life. The entire idea of being thrown into an environment with nothing to draw on but "get out somehow" seems quaint and probably wouldn't appeal to many gamers today. It is still important to note that this game was in a sense outdated but for graphics already when it came out. However, I still appreciated Unreal when it came out, and continue to appreciate it for what it is. I have replayed Half-Life more than Unreal, but every once in a while when I get tired of modern games that require me to invest 30 minutes in the character creation screen alone, or ones that only let me play every ten minutes between quick-time events or story-sequences, I might just feel instead like turning on my lava lamp in the evening, cranking up the sound, and being immersed in this game.

Quake 2 RTX looks pretty nice. It's very short though.

I think the most unfortunate thing about Unreal and Unreal Engine is that Epic doesn't open source it. I could go for some VR ports of UE1 games.

I still have the Unreal soundtrack CD from Straylight.

mombarak wrote on 2025-02-02, 14:27:

Oh ok. I guess that means using a controller for a FPS. Something I never got used to.

Lemme tell ya, Quake 2 on the N64 controller is extremely challenging. But it's fun. The strangest thing about that game is while it looks like Quake 2, it actually runs on an improved Quake64 engine and feels more like Quake than Quake2.

Daikatana on N64 is like that too. I don't think it's on the Quake 2 engine. My guess is Kemco made a custom engine for it or possibly used the Quake engine. The levels are superficially similar to the PC game. The music and cinematics are all different. Interesting stuff.

leonardo wrote on 2025-02-02, 16:42:

Unreal is the last of its kind. IMO it's the last of what one might consider great DooM-clone shooters.

I dunno about that. What about Serious Sam or Painkiller?

Did Doom clones ever die? Modern Doom is similar to old Doom. There's an indie scene still making simplistic shooters, and a mod scene making crazy things like Ashes 2063 and Aliens Eradication.

mombarak wrote on 2025-02-02, 14:27:

Oh ok. I guess that means using a controller for a FPS. Something I never got used to.

One upside of emulating an N64 is you can use a controller with dual analog. Makes controlling FPS games a lot easier compared to the real N64 controller.

swaaye wrote on 2025-02-02, 17:12:

Did Doom clones ever die? Modern Doom is similar to old Doom. There's an indie scene still making simplistic shooters, and a mod scene making crazy things like Ashes 2063 and Aliens Eradication.

They never really died, just became more niche after Half-Life.

Shponglefan wrote on 2025-02-02, 17:09:

leonardo wrote on 2025-02-02, 16:42:

Unreal is the last of its kind. IMO it's the last of what one might consider great DooM-clone shooters.

I dunno about that. What about Serious Sam or Painkiller?

There are always oddballs that break the convention. Was Grim Fandango the last great adventure game? Some might argue that, even though other point-and-clickers came out after.

I draw a line for FPS-games at Unreal because Unreal was still marketed as cutting edge and a big hubbub was made about it. Serious Sam and Painkiller just weren't quite as big or talked about, despite the fact that they might have been great examples in their sub-genre.

leonardo wrote on 2025-02-02, 16:42:

People like to give Unreal awards for how it looks, and I would say that those are pretty well deserved. The engine had some cool features that its contemporaries lacked. Quake2 could have competed on engine-tech, but it was held back by boring art direction (there can only be so many brown military installations or warehouses before it becomes monotonous). I liked the weapon models in Half-Life better, but in all honesty keeping with the aesthetic they were going for, the ones in Unreal aren't bad at all. Out of all the games, Unreal comes out looking the best today with updated renderers and higher resolution texture packs, but looks nice and runs surprisingly well on even on period hardware.

IMHO, Quake 2 gets sold short for it's art direction. In fact, I to largely remembered it as being blocky and brown. Then I played it start to finished and couldn't believe how creative and varied it actually was.

I blame the second unit. The warehouse levels are the epitome of the Crate Review System. A whole ass fucking series of levels with nothing but boxy brown bullshit. It hits you right after that short and punchy first unit, and on every replay I'd ever started of Quake II for years and years, it's as far as I got before I thought "Man, this isn't as fun as I remembered" and wondered off to doomscroll or kill time on Youtube. When I finally forced my way past it on a more committed playthrough, I was amazed at the mines, castles, space stations, prisons, etc I had completely forgotten about. And I think the final unit might have some of the most impressive visuals and designs of it's era, even if it lacks slightly in gravitas compared to Unreal's large open areas that can really emphasize how imposing a structure can be.

All that said, off the top of my head I recall Unreal had more sophisticated shading, reflections, the aforementioned wide open areas, and the occasional truly inspired level. I have very vivid memories of the level you emerge from the prison ship to, as well as several levels that take place in a town in the sky. But, taken as a whole, I actually found more levels of Unreal visually repetitive and frustratingly easy to get lost in than Quake II, and many downright ugly. The ugly vomit green water temple where you get the rocket launcher comes to mind.

I like leonardo's text. The reason is, I found out for myself that I agree that it is kind of the last AAA title of an Doom/Wolfenstein-like FPS is. They simply switched the key-cards for terminals with a beep sound. Now you do not have to bring back the card to open the door, you open it from a remote location but still have to walk back to it. It does not apply for all levels but it is visible. You still have the mazes but they do not give you the map. The monsters are placed on the map and you have only a few, rare scripted events. But you had these in Quake 1 already.

I am now at the sun temple and realized how different you look at the level. I think back in the days you must have thought, wow, what a long walk to this tower and then, even in the tower, there is a full level without loading. Today, I was more fascinated by the fact that the long walk to the tower had almost no objects like trees on it which made it look artificial. Times change...

Namrok wrote on 2025-02-02, 20:09:

leonardo wrote on 2025-02-02, 16:42:

People like to give Unreal awards for how it looks, and I would say that those are pretty well deserved. The engine had some cool features that its contemporaries lacked. Quake2 could have competed on engine-tech, but it was held back by boring art direction (there can only be so many brown military installations or warehouses before it becomes monotonous). I liked the weapon models in Half-Life better, but in all honesty keeping with the aesthetic they were going for, the ones in Unreal aren't bad at all. Out of all the games, Unreal comes out looking the best today with updated renderers and higher resolution texture packs, but looks nice and runs surprisingly well on even on period hardware.

IMHO, Quake 2 gets sold short for it's art direction. In fact, I to largely remembered it as being blocky and brown. Then I played it start to finished and couldn't believe how creative and varied it actually was.

I blame the second unit. The warehouse levels are the epitome of the Crate Review System. A whole ass fucking series of levels with nothing but boxy brown bullshit. It hits you right after that short and punchy first unit, and on every replay I'd ever started of Quake II for years and years, it's as far as I got before I thought "Man, this isn't as fun as I remembered" and wondered off to doomscroll or kill time on Youtube. When I finally forced my way past it on a more committed playthrough, I was amazed at the mines, castles, space stations, prisons, etc I had completely forgotten about. And I think the final unit might have some of the most impressive visuals and designs of it's era, even if it lacks slightly in gravitas compared to Unreal's large open areas that can really emphasize how imposing a structure can be.

That's completely fair. When it came out, I thought Quake2 was the nicest looking game I had ever seen. It was the first time I ever saw 30 FPS at 640x480 (courtesy of my brand new 3DFx Voodoo). Brown or no, it was the ---- . The music pumped and the action had a really visceral feel. It was FPS heaven.

Shponglefan wrote on 2025-02-02, 17:09:

I dunno about that. What about Serious Sam or Painkiller?

Unreal doesn't play like either. Many forget that not all FPSes then were eugeneJarvislikes

its a product of its time, you cant come and play for the first time with the same mind

having say that and done with Duke 3d and Doom, there was nothing new aside the - at the time - amazing graphics (the castle demo in a voodoo 2 was something else)

taking that away, its a boring game (for me) like Quake 1 and 2. I much preffer Half Life 1 and UT 99

I never played it on release, because no one had it 😀

Then I played it a couple of years(5?) ago on a modern system, all the patches and enhancements, finished it. Wasnt bad, but at the end, it got a bit boring. Also preffer quakes gameplay.

I picked it up a few days ago, now I play it on a voodoo machine, and a3d for sound. My expectations are also a bit more tempered since I played it before.

Must say Im severly enjoying it.
The atmosphere is really nice, Im playing it a bit slower, everything just looks more misterious for some reason with the combination of sound, and what voodoo+my monitor scaling does, maybe its the contrast, who knows, its just looks and feels great to play.

Probably playing this as a kid, would really make an impression on me.

mombarak wrote on 2025-01-30, 10:13:

Whats your opinion?
Would you recommend the Addon or is that just more of the same?

I have some good memories playing it for the first and second time.
At the time I had gotten Unreal for cheap (probably like 50 cents or so) and the year was probably around 2006 or so, so Unreal was already old at the time.

Iirc I played it on a Celeron 400 with a TNT2 M64 and the second playthrough was iirc a K6-3/400 with a V2 (don't remember the sound cards) and especially the first playthrough I thoroughly enjoyed it!
The level design along with the exploring and the fighting along with the great soundtrack and the nice sound effects and minipuzzles, arriving in a stone temple with water or an arena fighting a giant, outdoors fighting some flying critters, inside prisons and alien spaceships? One level was called "The Darkening" or something where the entire level went dark with just me and glowing enemies lighting up the place.

Collecting those seeds which you could throw on the ground which would sprout a plant healing for 29hp I think? I ended up saving them up and using them all in the final fight and once the final scene played out, I was amazed! Like having just watched an awesome movie in the theatre! That feeling, for me it deserved the Unreal name for sure!
For me personally it was a 10/10 experience! Ok maybe more like a 9.5/10 experience because I did have a couple times where I got stuck (couldn't find a lever or something).

The second playthrough was on the Voodoo 2 system where I played the entire campaign again, but on a higher difficulty.

I don't think I experienced any major technical difficulties. Both playthroughs were played on roughly period correct hardware.

But I definitely liked it.

I think it was some years later I finally played the Na Pali storyline. Iirc this had floating castles or something.

But overall? Nice experience, very long campaign btw.