DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-23, 11:55:

The biggest issue is the noise 🤣. It's crazy how loud the computer is and then you go back to your main one, which is whisper quiet.

Things that usually make old computers loud:

1. Old, worn out CPU and chipset fans. Solution: replace with modern Noctua fans of equal size and strength
2. Old, worn out GPU fan. Solution: replace with a better GPU cooling assembly
3. Old, worn out PSU fan. Solution: replace the entire PSU with a modern one, using adapters as needed
4. Old hard drive spinning at 7200 RPM. Solution: replace with an SSD using a SATA to IDE adapter
5. A CD-ROM drive spinning at 52x while reading discs. Solution: slow down the drive using tools like Nero Drive Speed

I've done this on several of my retro rigs, and they became blissfully quiet afterwards. Not all of these are viable on all systems though, as some use a proprietary PSUs or a non-standard size CPU fan. Also, older PCs may have HDD size limitations, so you might be better off replacing the HDD with a Compact Flash card, using a CF to IDE adapter. Lastly, finding a replacement GPU cooling solution can sometimes be tricky due to capacitor placement.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-10-23, 21:18:

Things that usually make old computers loud: […]
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Things that usually make old computers loud:

1. Old, worn out CPU and chipset fans. Solution: replace with modern Noctua fans of equal size and strength
2. Old, worn out GPU fan. Solution: replace with a better GPU cooling solution
3. Old, worn out PSU fan. Solution: replace the entire PSU with a modern one, using adapters as needed
4. Old hard drive spinning at 7200 RPM. Solution: replace with an SSD using a SATA to IDE adapter
5. A CD -ROM drive spinning at 52x while reading discs. Solution: slow down the drive using tools like Nero Drive Speed

I've done this on several of my retro rigs, and they became blissfully quiet afterwards. Not all of these are viable on all systems though, as some use a proprietary PSUs or a non-standard size CPU fan. Also, older PCs may have HDD size limitations, so you might be better off replacing the HDD with a Compact Flash card, using a CF to IDE adapter. Lastly, finding a replacement GPU cooling solution can sometimes be tricky due to capacitor placement.

Thanks for the suggestions. Well, the HDD isn't anything special; it's only 10GB, so that will either need replacing or another one added, if there's room. The CD, or DVD in this case, can be crossed off the list as that hasn't been used. Yet. Probably won't be worth replacing the CPU/GPU fans, and I've never done it before either. Not a big deal if I have to change the GPU to something else though.

A lot of fans can be removed from hardware for thorough cleaning of dust, grease or rust.
Beware air dusters they are not always safe to use on hardware just use soap or isopropyl and q-tips or soft toothbrush.
Improper balance of the blades creates the extra noise

From the video, it sounds like it's mainly the PSU fan. A newer PSU will be quieter as it'll use a 120mm fan instead of 80mm (lower revs for the same volume of air moved), have a temperature controlled fan, and be more efficient (80+% compared to 70% or less for PSUs from that period; that's from 20-100% load, below that they're less efficient) so there's less excess heat to move in the first place.

Okay, I've opened it up and investigated the inside of it. I'm actually a bit confused with the motherboard. Unless I'm reading the wrong information, which is near towards the ISA slot, it doesn't look like the model I thought it was. It reads MS6156 1.0BX7. Not sure what that is/means. The PSU looks to be incredibly basic. Can't see any indication of the wattage. It's a Hipro HP-K1507A3C. It looks to only be 12A on the 5V rail. Whilst I had it open, I tried to figure out where the noise is emanating from. It struck me that it was actually coming from the CPU. Sadly I wasn't able to dust it out as the battery to my compressed air machine is flat. Typical. But it doesn't appear to be too bad dust-wise.

EDIT: According to a listing for that model on eBay - 86W. 😮

EDIT 2: So a MicroStar mobo according to this: https://www.wimsbios.com/forum/cpu-isn-recogn … 56bx-t2224.html

Possibly built for a Tiny computer, which that's what this is.

EDIT 3: This looks to be it: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/msi-ms-6156-bx7

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-23, 15:09:

So I can't go wrong with a lot of them really, judging by that list. They all have the MPU-401 slowdown/pauses, so that can't be helped. Doesn't look like my system has a sound card and there's no cable to plug from the monitor's speakers to the onboard sound. So I'll need to get some speakers along with a sound card.

I think this was probably mentioned earlier, but there are other (better) options besides Sound Blaster cards. Especially if you're planning to use a wavetable daughtercard or external sound modules, it's worth getting something that doesn't have MPU-401 issues.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-10-24, 20:09:

I think this was probably mentioned earlier, but there are other (better) options besides Sound Blaster cards. Especially if you're planning to use a wavetable daughtercard or external sound modules, it's worth getting something that doesn't have MPU-401 issues.

That opens a whole new can of worms, heh. I wouldn't know where to begin with that. ^^;

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-24, 21:08:

That opens a whole new can of worms, heh. I wouldn't know where to begin with that. ^^;

There are some safe recommendations. Cards based on YMF 71x chips offer Adlib/SB/SB Pro support, clean audio output, a bug-free MPU-401 interface and usually a wavetable header. And they're readily available and affordable.

The trade off is it doesn't have 16-bit Sound Blaster support, but native 16-bit output / 16-bit samples wasn't hugely supported. There is a list of some games with 16-bit sound here: A List of DOS Games with 16-Bit Sound

A lot of it comes down to which games you want to play, what sort of audio features you prioritize. There is no perfect single ISA sound card, though some modern cards like the Orpheus II come close.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-24, 12:33:

EDIT 3: This looks to be it: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/msi-ms-6156-bx7

What's wrong with this motherboard? MicroATX 440BX with AGP/ISA/PCI, seems... encouraging...

VivienM wrote on 2024-10-24, 21:49:

What's wrong with this motherboard? MicroATX 440BX with AGP/ISA/PCI, seems... encouraging...

Nothing at all. I was just confused as to what it was at first, until I found that link. 😀

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-10-23, 21:18:

1. Old, worn out CPU and chipset fans. Solution: replace with modern Noctua fans of equal size and strength

About this one specifically: I wasn't able to find an 80mm noctua fan that's as powerfull as the OG one from the Titan cooler I have. I don't think I'll be able to find a fan that can push that much air that's silent (the OG it's rated for up to 55 CFM), while the fastet equivalent noctua fan pushes, at most, 33 CFM. Of course that original fan sounds like a jet engine even at half speed, but I've noticed, looking around, that even modern fans from other reputable brands either don't push enough air, or do push enough air but are very noisy. I believe it's a case of law of phisics: You can't push that much more air while being less noisy.

My suggestion would be to increase the number of noctua fans even on the case itself, so that cooler air is always coming into it. I still have to test this myself.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-10-24, 21:44:

There are some safe recommendations. Cards based on YMF 71x chips offer Adlib/SB/SB Pro support, clean audio output, a bug-free MPU-401 interface and usually a wavetable header. And they're readily available and affordable.

The trade off is it doesn't have 16-bit sound support, but native 16-bit output or 16-bit samples wasn't hugely supported. There is a list of some games with 16-bit sound here: A List of DOS Games with 16-Bit Sound

A lot of it comes down to which games you want to play, what sort of audio features you prioritize. There is no perfect single ISA sound card, though some modern cards like the Orpheus II come close.

I can see about eight games in that list that I have and will be playing that support 16-bit audio. 😀

So, you're saying something like the YMF 71x doesn't have native 16-bit output? Whereas something like SB16 does? I'm a bit confused.

I've just come across a pair of Enact G-401A speakers for as little as £10. Any thoughts on these? Would they be worth getting?

Just read that a 512ii PSU would be good for a Windows 98 setup? Would anyone agree? It's about 380W and has about 20+A on the 3.3v and 5v rails.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-25, 13:25:

So, you're saying something like the YMF 71x doesn't have native 16-bit output? Whereas something like SB16 does? I'm a bit confused.

Sorry, I should have better clarified, I meant 16-bit Sound Blaster support. YMF chips support Sound Blaster Pro which is 8-bit (IIRC, it supports 8-bit samples up to ~22kHz).

I believe the YMF chips do have 16-bit Window Sound System support, but that's not the same as 16-bit Sound Blaster support you'd get with a SB16 or AWE32/64.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-10-25, 18:29:

Sorry, I should have better clarified, I meant 16-bit Sound Blaster support. YMF chips support Sound Blaster Pro which is 8-bit (IIRC, it supports 8-bit samples up to ~22kHz).

I believe the YMF chips do have 16-bit Window Sound System support, but that's not the same as 16-bit Sound Blaster support you'd get with a SB16 or AWE32/64.

I'll probably just stick to a SB16/AWE32/Awe64 to be on the safe side. I have very little experience with sound cards to be honest. Particularly during the 90s as we only used onboard sound the whole time. 😀

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-25, 21:51:

I'll probably just stick to a SB16/AWE32/Awe64 to be on the safe side. I have very little experience with sound cards to be honest. Particularly during the 90s as we only used onboard sound the whole time. 😀

All the more reason to get a dozen sound cards and find out what you've been missing. 😁

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-10-25, 21:58:

All the more reason to get a dozen sound cards and find out what you've been missing. 😁

Haha. Well, we'll see. I am curious and certainly interested in experimenting, hence why I'm curious about the MT-32 as well. 😁

I'm trying to pull the HDD out to see the label, however I'm having problems removing the ribbons. I've noticed there's some blue things on either side of the ones connected to the motherboard, which could just be part of the design, or they could be latches of some sort? Never seen them before myself. Anyone else? I can't seem to get any leverage or get them to release, nor am I able to pull the ribbons out.

https://imgur.com/l36DzhO
https://imgur.com/RXX9pSp

That looks like hot glue. I have occasionally seen it in some systems. It's to keep the cables from becoming accidentally dislodged.

Try some isopropyl alcohol on them. It should break the glue's adhesion.