ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-09-10, 22:02:

Yeah probably, but removing it isnt a problem.
I remember all those years ago having to crack XP WPA every time you sneezed so a bit of bloat isnt a problem.

Cracking XP WPA could be avoided... by just buying a legitimate copy (or borrowing some random large organization's VLK).

Debloating 11, etc is... not as easy.

ncmark wrote on 2024-09-10, 23:05:

I was thinking about this.
If you have to have a micro$soft account to use Win11, I am willing to bet it requires MFA?
So what happens if your phone is lost, stolen, compromised, whatever - at the point you would not even be able to get into your computer to access your files?

I don't think it requires MFA on each login, only on the first login... (certainly that's how logging in using a work Entra ID account works)

Well - why should they have my phone number at all

ncmark wrote on 2024-09-10, 23:05:

I was thinking about this.
If you have to have a micro$soft account to use Win11, I am willing to bet it requires MFA?
So what happens if your phone is lost, stolen, compromised, whatever - at the point you would not even be able to get into your computer to access your files?

The you get authenticator to send the message to your backup instead, which should be accessible from any computer in the world.
Unless you screwed up and set it to send it it an account you dont have access to of course.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-09-11, 01:33:

ncmark wrote on 2024-09-10, 23:05:

I was thinking about this.
If you have to have a micro$soft account to use Win11, I am willing to bet it requires MFA?
So what happens if your phone is lost, stolen, compromised, whatever - at the point you would not even be able to get into your computer to access your files?

The you get authenticator to send the message to your backup instead, which should be accessible from any computer in the world.
Unless you screwed up and set it to send it it an account you dont have access to of course.

VivienM wrote on 2024-09-10, 23:07:

ncmark wrote on 2024-09-10, 23:05:

I was thinking about this.
If you have to have a micro$soft account to use Win11, I am willing to bet it requires MFA?
So what happens if your phone is lost, stolen, compromised, whatever - at the point you would not even be able to get into your computer to access your files?

I don't think it requires MFA on each login, only on the first login... (certainly that's how logging in using a work Entra ID account works)

No it doesnt, not even close.

ncmark wrote on 2024-09-11, 00:03:

Well - why should they have my phone number at all

It doesnt, you can install an app on your phone, or just have it send the code to another email address.

VivienM wrote on 2024-09-10, 23:07:

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-09-10, 22:02:

Yeah probably, but removing it isnt a problem.
I remember all those years ago having to crack XP WPA every time you sneezed so a bit of bloat isnt a problem.

Cracking XP WPA could be avoided... by just buying a legitimate copy (or borrowing some random large organization's VLK).

Debloating 11, etc is... not as easy.

Yeah but there was no fun in buying it, it was all part of the fun back then...
You would have to have been there to appreciate it though.

For some weird reason people didnt like to let you borrow their VLK. Not sure why.

Removing the bloat is as simple as running a powershell script from GitHub

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-09-11, 01:39:

Yeah but there was no fun in buying it, it was all part of the fun back then... You would have to have been there to appreciate […]
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Yeah but there was no fun in buying it, it was all part of the fun back then...
You would have to have been there to appreciate it though.

For some weird reason people didnt like to let you borrow their VLK. Not sure why.

Removing the bloat is as simple as running a powershell script from GitHub

Well, I was there, but I guess we just had different ideas of fun back then, and certainly messing around with their activation stuff wasn't one of mine...

Re borrowing VLKs, well, I wouldn't have liked to be the company whose VLK was posted all over the Internet. That absurdly famous one. I presume somebody there got a stern talking to from Microsoft's legal department.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-09-11, 01:39:

Removing the bloat is as simple as running a powershell script from GitHub

I assume you are talking about Win11Debloat?

VivienM wrote on 2024-09-11, 02:55:

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-09-11, 01:39:

Yeah but there was no fun in buying it, it was all part of the fun back then... You would have to have been there to appreciate […]
Show full quote

Yeah but there was no fun in buying it, it was all part of the fun back then...
You would have to have been there to appreciate it though.

For some weird reason people didnt like to let you borrow their VLK. Not sure why.

Removing the bloat is as simple as running a powershell script from GitHub

Well, I was there, but I guess we just had different ideas of fun back then, and certainly messing around with their activation stuff wasn't one of mine...

Re borrowing VLKs, well, I wouldn't have liked to be the company whose VLK was posted all over the Internet. That absurdly famous one. I presume somebody there got a stern talking to from Microsoft's legal department.

I guess so.
The company I worked for at the time had a Select account so I didnt really need to, I wanted to. It was fun.
About the time of XP SP1a was released I gained access to an MSDN account too.

I dont think people bother with any of that stuff anymore, Windows 11 can be bought legally for less than £5 now, as opposed to just under £100 for XP back in the early 2000s.
It was something to do in the wee small hours 😉

dr_st wrote on 2024-09-11, 03:25:

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-09-11, 01:39:

Removing the bloat is as simple as running a powershell script from GitHub

I assume you are talking about Win11Debloat?

I couldnt tell you what it was without looking it up again.
I think Craft Computing over on YT did a video on it a little while ago though.

Bypassing the user creation is a walk in the park
Shift F10 in the setup menu will bring up a command prompt
type OOBE\BYPASSNRO
Setup will start again this time allowing you to create a local account.

StriderTR wrote on 2024-09-07, 14:51:

Windows 11 will happen for me in one of two cases. […]
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Windows 11 will happen for me in one of two cases.

1. When software I use stops working in Windows 10, and that's normally not until several years after M$ stops supporting it becasue most software I use is either old or open source anyway. It's games that often push me to a new OS.

2. I do a full system rebuild, and that's at least a few years off yet. I prefer full OS installs over upgrades.

I can't count how many times that when I tell people I stay on an OS so long after support has officially ended, the first response I normally get "BUT WHAT ABOUT SECURITY!". I just shake my head and say, play smart and use 3rd party software if you're that concerned about it.

That being said, I am not looking forward to it. Call me a crotchety old man, but I hate the direction M$ went with Windows in just about every respect, especially with the data collection. I'm happy on Windows 10, I have it configured how I like it. Honestly, if it wasn't for my gaming and a few pieces of software I use on a very regular basis, I would have dropped Windows and went to Linux years ago. Maybe someday, just not today. 😀

Still on Windows 7 here. AMD Threadripper 7960x RTX 3090 Ti 64GB Ram. I mean I know its overkill but I don't care what people say. 7 does what I need. I would go back to Windows 2000 if I could believe me.

Still using Windows 7 here too, although a much smaller system than yours. Installed latest updates yesterday.

I would have at least given Windows 11 a try, but none of my computers matches their requirements, and I can't be bothered jumping through hoops.

Robbbert wrote on 2024-09-12, 03:32:

Still using Windows 7 here too, although a much smaller system than yours. Installed latest updates yesterday.

I would have at least given Windows 11 a try, but none of my computers matches their requirements, and I can't be bothered jumping through hoops.

I have Winblows 11 canary channel in a VM just to try it. I don't like it. I daily drove 10 a couple years back and I don't even like it.

Munx wrote on 2024-09-07, 15:27:

VivienM wrote on 2024-09-07, 14:29:

3) Windows operating system development went sideways after 7. I still think Vista was perfectly defensible for old enthusiasts - it made you get new hardware, it looked cooler and modern, etc. But... 8 went nuts with the start screen/metro stuff, then 10/11 have just been weirdly redesigning the interface for no good reason, adding more and more cloud/etc, and they've just been throwing web technologies into everything which is one reason that Win11 on boot guzzles like 5 gigs of RAM when XP guzzled 100-150 megs. (

The day I installed Windows 8.1 is still stuck in my mind as that's the first time newer tech looked unappealing. Like, I knew Vista had issues and had experienced some of them when using PC's that weren't mine, but high-school me still looked at Vista as something to upgrade to once my own hardware was good enough to run it. Win 8 was just horrible. Not only the visual downgrade, but I had to fight that UI CONSTANTLY. Went back to 7 soon after and only got 10 after I upgraded to Ryzen and didn't want to risk running an unsupported OS on it.

I already have several machines running Linux (one of them being a Steamdeck) and once 10 stops getting security updates its going to be 100% penguin for me, apart from retro PCs.

How is it a risk to run 7 on "unsupported" hardware ?! It is only unsupported per what Microsoft says. I have 7 on a threadripper 7960x, and HOW DO I HAVE WINDOWS 2000 ON INTEL 9100F STABLE .

TheFighterJetDude wrote on 2024-09-12, 04:42:

How is it a risk to run 7 on "unsupported" hardware ?! It is only unsupported per what Microsoft says. I have 7 on a threadripper 7960x, and HOW DO I HAVE WINDOWS 2000 ON INTEL 9100F STABLE .

Vendor driver support usually plummets a few years after the hardware is released. And this is not only about availability, but also performance and stability, as no one tests old drivers on new OSes. For this reason it is typically best to match a platform with the contemporary Windows version that was running on it during its mainstream support phase.

VivienM wrote on 2024-09-08, 13:38:

The "unsupported CPU crap" is less about technical limitations and more about respect. Yes, I know how to get around it. But it fundamentally offends me that instead of taking my money for a retail upgrade, Microsoft makes the upgrade free... but then says that my i7-7700 with 64 gigs of RAM is too old and crappy when a low end Celeron from a year newer is perfectly acceptable.

I totally agree. Microsoft is effectively deciding what hardware is obsolete e-waste and some of that hardware is way too powerful to not be supported.
I have a system with two Xeon E5-2697A v4 CPU's. 32 cores, 64 threads, 3.6GHz...my machine is a beast and I am even able to run games like Alan Wake 2 on Ultra with raytracing enabled.

But Microsoft says "Oh no, your CPU is too old and it's unsupported, buy a new computer". This is ridiculous, why would I throw away hardware that works perfectly fine and can even max-out current AAA titles?
We have enough waste on the planet already, deciding in software that some system is unsupported which still works perfectly fine is a slap in the face for the end user.

schmatzler wrote on 2024-09-12, 10:47:

I totally agree. Microsoft is effectively deciding what hardware is obsolete e-waste and some of that hardware is way too powerf […]
Show full quote

VivienM wrote on 2024-09-08, 13:38:

The "unsupported CPU crap" is less about technical limitations and more about respect. Yes, I know how to get around it. But it fundamentally offends me that instead of taking my money for a retail upgrade, Microsoft makes the upgrade free... but then says that my i7-7700 with 64 gigs of RAM is too old and crappy when a low end Celeron from a year newer is perfectly acceptable.

I totally agree. Microsoft is effectively deciding what hardware is obsolete e-waste and some of that hardware is way too powerful to not be supported.
I have a system with two Xeon E5-2697A v4 CPU's. 32 cores, 64 threads, 3.6GHz...my machine is a beast and I am even able to run games like Alan Wake 2 on Ultra with raytracing enabled.

But Microsoft says "Oh no, your CPU is too old and it's unsupported, buy a new computer". This is ridiculous, why would I throw away hardware that works perfectly fine and can even max-out current AAA titles?
We have enough waste on the planet already, deciding in software that some system is unsupported which still works perfectly fine is a slap in the face for the end user.

I only have 24 core that support win11 , , but on windows 7 🙁

So, in the end, I upgraded from Windows 10 to 11 (almost) as planned.
- I upgraded my own computer because I don't rely on patching from 10 to 11 24H2.
- I used the pendrive as described earlier (23H2, some features disabled by Rufus).
- I disabled TPM (and it's still disabled) before installing.

After a week it seems it worked well, but with some glitches.
- Font aliasing was disabled on some applications.
- Windows stole some file associations from my applications.
- A wild erroneous driver appeared!

Strangely, Windows hijacked only associations that could be opened by their programs (txt files, audio files, image files and video files). Those were linked to Notepad++, audacious, XNView MP and MPC-HC; the system stole them but did not associate them with their own programs (instead it linked it to WinRT storage API). Other files that Windows did not provide applications (i.e. LibreOffice odf) were not affected.

The erroneous driver was linked to ROOT\MEDIA\0000. I uninstalled it and searched for new hardware, and it did not reappear. My device manager remains clean.

The only program that I guessed it would fail was Fences (I use version 3), but it still works.

Beside that glitches, the only bad things I found are the start menu (I really prefer the old style, and I've already disabled the widgets) and the "shrinked" contextual menus. I've found that some registry keys will restore the old-style contextual menus, but I'm not tried it yet. Do they work?

Zup wrote on 2024-10-12, 08:29:

I've found that some registry keys will restore the old-style contextual menus, but I'm not tried it yet. Do they work?

Yes.

I just buy a new laptop for work, a thinkpad x390, very nice machine, and decide to give a try windows 11, after install tiny11 23h2, remove/totally delete defender and updates, the system is not bad. The overall gui is a little better in my opinion than windows 10, and in dark mode they finally remove the white flash bug

Still a lot of gui inconsistencies, specially in "dark" mode (is not dark at all, just a mess) but overall is not bad windows if remove all crap

Nah I still prefer Win10's start menu but 11's is ok...Kinda feels a bit like Winx3 Program manager.
But then I still prefer the classic start menu and anything is better than the Windows 8 interface.

The thing that annoys me most is everything takes more clicks, one of the main design elements of Win95 was efficiency.
The Win11 Context Menu is a great example of adding an extra layer for no good reason.

But overall Win11 is serviceable, I don't think it'll become a cult OS like XP or 7 or hated like 8. More like Windows 98 FE where it does what it needs to do and will be forgotten about once replaced.