Part of what is confusing is the thread title is "Optimal Pentium 4 setup". But as VivienM points out, trying to run a 64-bit OS and applications on a Pentium 4 is far from optimal.

If the goal is to just run things on a Pentium 4 for the sake of running them, then sure. Though trying to do any sort of performance optimization isn't going to yield anything satisfactory.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-08-24, 15:48:

Part of what is confusing is the thread title is "Optimal Pentium 4 setup".

In that sense, the optimal Pentium 4 setup uses a Core².

The only P4 that I would really consider would be the fastest cheap-ish Northwood you can run on an 875 motherboard. That was probably the high point for it. It's interesting from a 2003 historical perspective.

The RDRAM based 850 setups were neat at the time too but I'm not sure how expensive that is to get into now.

This assumes you are desiring to experience a specific narrow timeframe and not be looking for great usability into the late 2000s or some such. They won't feel particularly fast. I would rather use an Athlon 64. Etc. 😀

swaaye wrote on 2024-08-24, 17:28:

The only P4 that I would really consider would be the fastest cheap-ish Northwood you can run on an 875 motherboard. That was probably the high point for it. It's interesting from a 2003 historical perspective.

I presume you could run 98SE just as well on that as on any other ICH5 setup?

One of the last northwoods would make a killer 98SE machine I suppose... except... then you compare it to socket 754...

VivienM wrote on 2024-08-24, 18:20:

I presume you could run 98SE just as well on that as on any other ICH5 setup?

One of the last northwoods would make a killer 98SE machine I suppose... except... then you compare it to socket 754...

Sure. I think you need to switch the SATA controller into legacy mode for 98SE to be happy. This makes it appear as a regular IDE controller. Also might want to run at most 512MB RAM to keep things simple. I had a D875PBZ motherboard briefly set up like that many years back.

If one is searching for super fast 98SE for whatever reason, my preferences would probably be Athlon 64 4000+ 939 nForce3 or VIA with USB 2.0 disabled. Or something like Asrock 775i65G with a Conroe or Penryn based CPU (mine booted fastest with an 800MT/s CPU).

swaaye wrote on 2024-08-24, 18:48:

Or something like Asrock 775i65G with a Conroe or Penryn based CPU (mine booted fastest with an 800MT/s CPU).

An idea I had (but didn't explore - don't have the motherboard) - I think there were some single core Conroe/Penryn-based Celerons. Might that on one of those i865 boards be the greatest 98SE Intel setup ever?

VivienM wrote on 2024-08-24, 19:01:

swaaye wrote on 2024-08-24, 18:48:

Or something like Asrock 775i65G with a Conroe or Penryn based CPU (mine booted fastest with an 800MT/s CPU).

An idea I had (but didn't explore - don't have the motherboard) - I think there were some single core Conroe/Penryn-based Celerons. Might that on one of those i865 boards be the greatest 98SE Intel setup ever?

I am using an ASRock 775i865 Conroe with Win98se. Windows seems to run fine on a dual core, just doesn't use one. Others have managed to install it on even later core² hardware. As far as I am concerned, 3GHz Conroe is more than fast enough. I also have a single core² Celeron, which runs at 2.4 GHz and generates very little heat. Audigy ZS does the sound. 4200ti for picture.

Is there any difference between an 865 versus 875 chipset under Windows 98?

I have Pentium 4 computers on all the sockets the Pentium 4 was available on, 423,478 and 775, and they are all the best when off; 423 and 478 have their funny things to spend some time tinkering with, but a Pentium 4 on 775 is as useless as a stone in the road.

Hoping wrote on 2024-08-24, 20:35:

but a Pentium 4 on 775 is as useless as a stone in the road.

I know I'm a broken record at this point, but I'm going to keep saying it: industrial LGA775 / i865 with ISA slots + Cedar Mill processor = a kick ass DOS/Win9x/early-XP retro machine. 😁

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-08-24, 20:53:

I know I'm a broken record at this point, but I'm going to keep saying it: industrial LGA775 / i865 with ISA slots + Cedar Mill processor = a kick ass DOS/Win9x/early-XP retro machine. 😁

I can imagine that it could be like that, it all depends on many things, each person has their tastes; but well, I prefer to have several computers, compatibility is assured. 😉
Last time I was looking for some 775 industrial motherboard, the price seemed ridiculous, but, I'm curious; those 775 motherboards with 865 chipset and ISA slots, don't they also support Core 2?
I imagine they could.

Trashbytes wrote on 2024-08-22, 06:57:

Well you are limited to 16Gb if your Northbridge can handle it but you wont get any overclocking from running 16Gb as the Northb […]
Show full quote

Well you are limited to 16Gb if your Northbridge can handle it but you wont get any overclocking from running 16Gb as the Northbridge will be stretched running that amount, stick to two 4Gb fast modules and you'll be golden. Even my X48 Rampage cant handle overclocking with 16Gb due to how hot the Northbridge gets just running that amount.

The only board I have had good stability with at 16Gb was my ASUS Striker II Extreme and I believe that was simply due to a golden north bridge chip that didn't overheat when driving 16Gb.

People like to debate this but 16Gb was not common till X58 and the Core2 era Northbridges barely supported that amount, also early DDR3 was pretty terrible for both voltages and latency once you moved to 8Gb modules.

But hell give it a shot and see how your G41 goes, itll either run stable or it wont and youll spend hours tweaking it till it does or give up and fall back to 8Gb.

I ran my Rampage Extreme with 16GB at 1740MT/s CL8.9.8.24 CR1T and it required ~1.5V on NB.
1560MT/s CL7.8.7.21 CR1T was ~1.45V.

However, you can reduce it quite a bit by simply not pushing Performance level (setting in BIOS), Strap, CR1T, as much as possible.

My Striker II Extreme refuses to work with 16GB of memory (4x 4GB), it only goes to 2x 4GB max (or 8GB useable mode under 16GB). I read however that both EVGA and XFX 790i boards can work with 16GB memory.

G41 board has two DIMMs, so it doesn't matter from capacity size which one OP chooses.
4x 2GB (or two dual channel kit's of 800MT/s CL5), will be more expensive than 2x 4GB* DDR3 (*requirement : Both modules MUST be dual Rank/Double Sided, for 4GB capacity DIMMs to work on 775)

I don't think you should care with what you run Pentium 4 630 on.
It will suck (performance wise), regardless of chipset/MB combination you will use.
At the same time it will be fast enough for any DOS/Win98 program you can throw at it though.

Hoping wrote on 2024-08-24, 21:20:

I can imagine that it could be like that, it all depends on many things, each person has their tastes; but well, I prefer to have several computers, compatibility is assured. 😉

That's fair. There are admittedly some compatibility trade-offs, but that's always the case with builds covering a broader range.

Last time I was looking for some 775 industrial motherboard, the price seemed ridiculous, but, I'm curious; those 775 motherboards with 865 chipset and ISA slots, don't they also support Core 2?
I imagine they could.

The only one I know of that natively supports Core2 is the ANOVO AIMB-865. Don't have one (yet), so I can't comment on how well it would work.

The DFI G7S620-N-G and Axiomtek IMB200 don't natively support Core2; just Pentium 4 and D processors. Though the DFI board can apparently be modded to support Core2. A former member here apparently did it, but they no longer post here so details are a bit scant.

I've debated trying to mod it myself, but I can't quite think of a good use case for doing so.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-08-24, 21:44:

That's fair. There are admittedly some compatibility trade-offs, but that's always the case with builds covering a broader range.

So the most suitable computer with a Pentium 4 would be something like you mention to cover DOS, Win9x and Win XP up to 2004 and 2005 maybe, although in DOS there has to be quite a few problems with a Pentium 4.
It could be a pretty good answer. Because realistically, for XP it is much more logical to use a Core 2.

Hoping wrote on 2024-08-25, 00:08:

although in DOS there has to be quite a few problems with a Pentium 4.

No real problems in my experience. It works quite well in DOS. There are the usual speed sensitive games to deal with, but I've yet to find any games that can't be made playable.

It could be a pretty good answer. Because realistically, for XP it is much more logical to use a Core 2.

Agreed, for a more broad-based XP build a Core2 at minimum along with PCI-e. Especially since the latter of half the 2000s is when games started going widescreen and pushing higher resolutions.

swaaye wrote on 2024-08-24, 17:28:

The only P4 that I would really consider would be the fastest cheap-ish Northwood you can run on an 875 motherboard. That was probably the high point for it. It's interesting from a 2003 historical perspective.

For that reason, i have both P4 northwoods available in two builts:
One P4 (478) on i845 platform to cover Win98, and one P4 (478) i865 (PAT activated = 99% speed of i875) for Win XP.
For historical perpective...

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-08-25, 00:29:

Hoping wrote on 2024-08-25, 00:08:

It could be a pretty good answer. Because realistically, for XP it is much more logical to use a Core 2.

Agreed, for a more broad-based XP build a Core2 at minimum along with PCI-e. Especially since the latter of half the 2000s is when games started going widescreen and pushing higher resolutions.

For an XP build, yes, core2 is more logical in performance/power-energy efficient reasons.
But mostly you are restricted to PCI-e platforms.
Comparing cheap P4 platforms (e.g. i845 , i865...) vs. the special 775 platforms with including AGP, i would say on common platform like eBay, the 775/AGP combo will be sold at a much higher price level....

agent_x007 wrote on 2024-08-24, 21:38:

I ran my Rampage Extreme with 16GB at 1740MT/s CL8.9.8.24 CR1T and it required ~1.5V on NB. 1560MT/s CL7.8.7.21 CR1T was ~1.45V. […]
Show full quote

Trashbytes wrote on 2024-08-22, 06:57:

Well you are limited to 16Gb if your Northbridge can handle it but you wont get any overclocking from running 16Gb as the Northb […]
Show full quote

Well you are limited to 16Gb if your Northbridge can handle it but you wont get any overclocking from running 16Gb as the Northbridge will be stretched running that amount, stick to two 4Gb fast modules and you'll be golden. Even my X48 Rampage cant handle overclocking with 16Gb due to how hot the Northbridge gets just running that amount.

The only board I have had good stability with at 16Gb was my ASUS Striker II Extreme and I believe that was simply due to a golden north bridge chip that didn't overheat when driving 16Gb.

People like to debate this but 16Gb was not common till X58 and the Core2 era Northbridges barely supported that amount, also early DDR3 was pretty terrible for both voltages and latency once you moved to 8Gb modules.

But hell give it a shot and see how your G41 goes, itll either run stable or it wont and youll spend hours tweaking it till it does or give up and fall back to 8Gb.

I ran my Rampage Extreme with 16GB at 1740MT/s CL8.9.8.24 CR1T and it required ~1.5V on NB.
1560MT/s CL7.8.7.21 CR1T was ~1.45V.

The attachment AIDA64.png is no longer available

However, you can reduce it quite a bit by simply not pushing Performance level (setting in BIOS), Strap, CR1T, as much as possible.

My Striker II Extreme refuses to work with 16GB of memory (4x 4GB), it only goes to 2x 4GB max (or 8GB useable mode under 16GB). I read however that both EVGA and XFX 790i boards can work with 16GB memory.

G41 board has two DIMMs, so it doesn't matter from capacity size which one OP chooses.
4x 2GB (or two dual channel kit's of 800MT/s CL5), will be more expensive than 2x 4GB* DDR3 (*requirement : Both modules MUST be dual Rank/Double Sided, for 4GB capacity DIMMs to work on 775)

I don't think you should care with what you run Pentium 4 630 on.
It will suck (performance wise), regardless of chipset/MB combination you will use.
At the same time it will be fast enough for any DOS/Win98 program you can throw at it though.

Its honestly RNG with northbridges on 775, some will run 16GB with no issues other will flat out refuse to, others you have to piss around with BIOS settings to get it to work and then you usually find out 16GB flat out sucks performance wise and the settings that work have zero head room for further tweaking. (performance wise compared to a pair of fast 2Gb DDR3 sticks when Overclocking)

I have an EVGA 790i SLI FTW Digital PWM board that has run with every kind of DDR3 I have thrown at it, the only problem with using that board is I would have zero chance to replace it should it shit the bed so I take extra care with it and couldn't see myself actually using it in a build as a finished system.

The ASUS Striker II Extreme I have does have a forced flashed modded EVGA bios on it which is what allowed it to run with 16Gb, I honestly dont recommend anyone actually do that as you do lose some ASUS specific BIOS stuff. The board is actually more stable with the modded BIOS than the stock one ...but its been a while since I used that board as the Rampage was better for Overclocking.

I also agree with the P4 being woeful, but I cant really talk as I do have a 661 Ceadar Mill rig, its not a bad build but even the slowest core2 Pentiums shit all over it performance wise.

agent_x007 wrote on 2024-08-24, 21:38:

I ran my Rampage Extreme with 16GB at 1740MT/s CL8.9.8.24 CR1T and it required ~1.5V on NB. 1560MT/s CL7.8.7.21 CR1T was ~1.45V. […]
Show full quote

Trashbytes wrote on 2024-08-22, 06:57:

Well you are limited to 16Gb if your Northbridge can handle it but you wont get any overclocking from running 16Gb as the Northb […]
Show full quote

Well you are limited to 16Gb if your Northbridge can handle it but you wont get any overclocking from running 16Gb as the Northbridge will be stretched running that amount, stick to two 4Gb fast modules and you'll be golden. Even my X48 Rampage cant handle overclocking with 16Gb due to how hot the Northbridge gets just running that amount.

The only board I have had good stability with at 16Gb was my ASUS Striker II Extreme and I believe that was simply due to a golden north bridge chip that didn't overheat when driving 16Gb.

People like to debate this but 16Gb was not common till X58 and the Core2 era Northbridges barely supported that amount, also early DDR3 was pretty terrible for both voltages and latency once you moved to 8Gb modules.

But hell give it a shot and see how your G41 goes, itll either run stable or it wont and youll spend hours tweaking it till it does or give up and fall back to 8Gb.

I ran my Rampage Extreme with 16GB at 1740MT/s CL8.9.8.24 CR1T and it required ~1.5V on NB.
1560MT/s CL7.8.7.21 CR1T was ~1.45V.

The attachment AIDA64.png is no longer available

However, you can reduce it quite a bit by simply not pushing Performance level (setting in BIOS), Strap, CR1T, as much as possible.

My Striker II Extreme refuses to work with 16GB of memory (4x 4GB), it only goes to 2x 4GB max (or 8GB useable mode under 16GB). I read however that both EVGA and XFX 790i boards can work with 16GB memory.

G41 board has two DIMMs, so it doesn't matter from capacity size which one OP chooses.
4x 2GB (or two dual channel kit's of 800MT/s CL5), will be more expensive than 2x 4GB* DDR3 (*requirement : Both modules MUST be dual Rank/Double Sided, for 4GB capacity DIMMs to work on 775)

I don't think you should care with what you run Pentium 4 630 on.
It will suck (performance wise), regardless of chipset/MB combination you will use.
At the same time it will be fast enough for any DOS/Win98 program you can throw at it though.

The striker 2 only shows 2gb sticks in its qvl
And the chipset only supported 8gb Max
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NForce_700

I highly doubt those other boards worked with more than 8

myne wrote on 2024-08-25, 12:22:

The striker 2 only shows 2gb sticks in its qvl And the chipset only supported 8gb Max https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NForce_700 […]
Show full quote

The striker 2 only shows 2gb sticks in its qvl
And the chipset only supported 8gb Max
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NForce_700

I highly doubt those other boards worked with more than 8

Well, Rampage Extreme also doesn't have offcial 16GB support, but works fine to me (and I can OC no problem, as can be seen on previous post)
As for Striker II Extreme, it does work (8GB in 2x 4GB configuration on official BIOS) :

I didn't tested EVGA/XFX ones (they are kind of hard to get 😁), but like I mentioned previously - I did read about 16GB working on them (I think it was on overclock.net forum... but I might be wrong).

QVLs back in the day were NEVER updated when higher capacity stuff came about.
So, newer higher capacity RAM can work with plain BIOS update. However, there are some limitations because even newest BIOS'es are still quite old (and usually have Rank/per side capacity limits I mentioned earlier, but this may be memory controller hardware limitation and not BIOS one).

myne wrote on 2024-08-25, 12:22:

The striker 2 only shows 2gb sticks in its qvl And the chipset only supported 8gb Max https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NForce_700 […]
Show full quote

agent_x007 wrote on 2024-08-24, 21:38:

I ran my Rampage Extreme with 16GB at 1740MT/s CL8.9.8.24 CR1T and it required ~1.5V on NB. 1560MT/s CL7.8.7.21 CR1T was ~1.45V. […]
Show full quote

Trashbytes wrote on 2024-08-22, 06:57:

Well you are limited to 16Gb if your Northbridge can handle it but you wont get any overclocking from running 16Gb as the Northb […]
Show full quote

Well you are limited to 16Gb if your Northbridge can handle it but you wont get any overclocking from running 16Gb as the Northbridge will be stretched running that amount, stick to two 4Gb fast modules and you'll be golden. Even my X48 Rampage cant handle overclocking with 16Gb due to how hot the Northbridge gets just running that amount.

The only board I have had good stability with at 16Gb was my ASUS Striker II Extreme and I believe that was simply due to a golden north bridge chip that didn't overheat when driving 16Gb.

People like to debate this but 16Gb was not common till X58 and the Core2 era Northbridges barely supported that amount, also early DDR3 was pretty terrible for both voltages and latency once you moved to 8Gb modules.

But hell give it a shot and see how your G41 goes, itll either run stable or it wont and youll spend hours tweaking it till it does or give up and fall back to 8Gb.

I ran my Rampage Extreme with 16GB at 1740MT/s CL8.9.8.24 CR1T and it required ~1.5V on NB.
1560MT/s CL7.8.7.21 CR1T was ~1.45V.

The attachment AIDA64.png is no longer available

However, you can reduce it quite a bit by simply not pushing Performance level (setting in BIOS), Strap, CR1T, as much as possible.

My Striker II Extreme refuses to work with 16GB of memory (4x 4GB), it only goes to 2x 4GB max (or 8GB useable mode under 16GB). I read however that both EVGA and XFX 790i boards can work with 16GB memory.

G41 board has two DIMMs, so it doesn't matter from capacity size which one OP chooses.
4x 2GB (or two dual channel kit's of 800MT/s CL5), will be more expensive than 2x 4GB* DDR3 (*requirement : Both modules MUST be dual Rank/Double Sided, for 4GB capacity DIMMs to work on 775)

I don't think you should care with what you run Pentium 4 630 on.
It will suck (performance wise), regardless of chipset/MB combination you will use.
At the same time it will be fast enough for any DOS/Win98 program you can throw at it though.

The striker 2 only shows 2gb sticks in its qvl
And the chipset only supported 8gb Max
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NForce_700

I highly doubt those other boards worked with more than 8

Anyone that uses Wikipedia as the be all end all of what a chipset did and did not support is misleading themselves, same for QVLs, many chipsets support features not officially listed or supported same for memory and CPUs, most 775 chipsets dont officially support Xeon CPUs but we all know that isnt exactly true, Same applies to memory capacity.

You can Force Flash the Striker II Extreme with the modded EVGA 790i SLI Ultra Bios and itll allow it to also work with 16Gb and Xeon CPUs, neither of which are officially supported. (The Striker II is a 790i SLI Ultra with extra ASUS bling)