VOGONS


Reply 20 of 80, by Falcosoft

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Dothan Burger wrote on 2024-07-29, 23:41:

Is realmode achieved by restarting into ms-dos mode and running Aida16?

Yes, but even DOS itself is running in pure real mode only if EMM386 is not loaded. When EMM386 is loaded the CPU itself is switched into protected/v86 mode.
But this does not mean that you could not test 32 -bit code performance in real mode or even 16-bit code performance in protected/v86 mode.
In both modes you can test both 16-bit and 32-bit code fragments.
In AIDA16 the MIPS16 part tests 16-bit performance and the MIPS32 part tests 32-bit performance.

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Reply 21 of 80, by Falcosoft

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BitWrangler wrote on 2024-07-30, 02:54:

I'm gonna go with the interpreted Basic and compiled basic versions of the whetstone on Roy Longbottoms pages for clues, the efficiency table here, first two columns only of results are 16 bit I think, http://www.roylongbottom.org.uk/whetstone.htm#anchorPC3

Which makes it look like Phenom II might be the one to beat, needing near 6 Ghz of intel core to best it at 3Ghz, and the Phenoms will go to 4Ghz on air given a bit of luck and 6 or 7 ghz with cryogenic liquids. So unless you can get over 6 ghz on air on recent core i-doesn't-matter-it's-single-core, or 12 Ghz or so with LN2 I think it will be the phenom II.

Yes, it seems AMD Athlons and Phenoms are faster running 16-bit code than Intel counterparts on the same frquency.
But according to AIDA16 the difference is not so huge. Athlons/Phenoms are about 1.5x faster on the same frequency with 16-bit code.
But this does not mean that Athlons/Phenoms are particularly fast running 16-bit code. An Athlon/Phenom at 1 Ghz is as fast as a K6-III 650 MHz when running 16-bit code.
(Interestingly this is also true for MMX/3dnow! code. The K6-2/III runs MMX/3dnow! code faster than Athlons and Phenoms on the same frequency.)

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Reply 22 of 80, by BitWrangler

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Still it seems you'd need the latest bleeding edge 14th gen Intel to beat the top end of the Phenom II (Note I am being specific and not lumping "athlon" a huge range, in with them) and it's possible that the Intel performance might get capped real soon to stop the chips degrading, so forget about a "mild overclock" taking a definitive lead on Intel's side.

On a per MHz basis, I think the Cyrix 6x86 architectures are in with a chance.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 23 of 80, by DarthSun

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edescourtis wrote on 2024-07-24, 13:14:
For benchmarking, does anyone have results from the following tools?: […]
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For benchmarking, does anyone have results from the following tools?:

• Norton SysInfo
• Landmark Speed Test

If you have any benchmark results from these tools, please share them.

E6600/@2610MHz/Radeon9800Pro
https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2021-09/21/225621_ … nwzz_lm6001.jpg

- Madness Machine: R3800X @4GHz def set, 2C/2T/NV7900GS/SB0060/Sound on/Modern SBEMU/Fvid LFB/WC On:
Machine with SpeedSys: https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2024-04/17/225621_ … pd_sstimg02.jpg
Wolf3D 1.4 TimeDemo : https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2024-04/17/225621_ … ke_wolf_201.jpg

HUANANZHI X99 TF/E5 2640v3/GTX1650/C2-T2/HT off/TDP-power profile/@2.6GHz : https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2024-01/20/225621_ … dw0q_l2full.jpg

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 24 of 80, by edescourtis

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DarthSun wrote on 2024-08-05, 18:46:
E6600/@2610MHz/Radeon9800Pro https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2021-09/21/225621_ … nwzz_lm6001.jpg […]
Show full quote
edescourtis wrote on 2024-07-24, 13:14:
For benchmarking, does anyone have results from the following tools?: […]
Show full quote

For benchmarking, does anyone have results from the following tools?:

• Norton SysInfo
• Landmark Speed Test

If you have any benchmark results from these tools, please share them.

E6600/@2610MHz/Radeon9800Pro
https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2021-09/21/225621_ … nwzz_lm6001.jpg

- Madness Machine: R3800X @4GHz def set, 2C/2T/NV7900GS/SB0060/Sound on/Modern SBEMU/Fvid LFB/WC On:
Machine with SpeedSys: https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2024-04/17/225621_ … pd_sstimg02.jpg
Wolf3D 1.4 TimeDemo : https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2024-04/17/225621_ … ke_wolf_201.jpg

HUANANZHI X99 TF/E5 2640v3/GTX1650/C2-T2/HT off/TDP-power profile/@2.6GHz : https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2024-01/20/225621_ … dw0q_l2full.jpg

I didn't expect the benchmark tool to overflow so badly. 🤣

Reply 25 of 80, by DarthSun

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edescourtis wrote on 2024-08-09, 11:17:
DarthSun wrote on 2024-08-05, 18:46:
E6600/@2610MHz/Radeon9800Pro https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2021-09/21/225621_ … nwzz_lm6001.jpg […]
Show full quote
edescourtis wrote on 2024-07-24, 13:14:
For benchmarking, does anyone have results from the following tools?: […]
Show full quote

For benchmarking, does anyone have results from the following tools?:

• Norton SysInfo
• Landmark Speed Test

If you have any benchmark results from these tools, please share them.

E6600/@2610MHz/Radeon9800Pro
https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2021-09/21/225621_ … nwzz_lm6001.jpg

- Madness Machine: R3800X @4GHz def set, 2C/2T/NV7900GS/SB0060/Sound on/Modern SBEMU/Fvid LFB/WC On:
Machine with SpeedSys: https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2024-04/17/225621_ … pd_sstimg02.jpg
Wolf3D 1.4 TimeDemo : https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2024-04/17/225621_ … ke_wolf_201.jpg

HUANANZHI X99 TF/E5 2640v3/GTX1650/C2-T2/HT off/TDP-power profile/@2.6GHz : https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2024-01/20/225621_ … dw0q_l2full.jpg

I didn't expect the benchmark tool to overflow so badly. 🤣

No problem, because the modern CPUSpd can slow down the madness machine up to XT speed. - Re: How many Landmark benchmarks?

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 26 of 80, by BitWrangler

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BitWrangler wrote on 2024-07-30, 12:22:

On a per MHz basis, I think the Cyrix 6x86 architectures are in with a chance.

I just went into the ultimate 686 benchmark results pdf to see what landmark 2.0 scores were being got...
Cyrix 6x86 cores seem to get 12x actual Mhz scores, where MMX-PIII are in the 5-6.5x range, K6 class get in the 10x range, and out of the CPUs sampled there, the winner..... Rise Mp6 with 17x per Mhz.

Interestingly even though there's a rumor that PPro are weak on 16bit they actually seemed to gain a little over MMX on that. Then the various PII and PIII revisions each gained a smidgen more.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 27 of 80, by oldhighgerman

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I have to go home and test my HP DC7600 SFF - p4 3.4ghz. The stupid HP 6005 Pro wit stupid Anthony II X2 B24 I think (assuming it has legacy support). Also have an Asus Essentio blah blah blah, socket 775, dokie pentium suffin.

I want to say a socket 771 board would blow most out thee water.

Reply 28 of 80, by BitWrangler

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I don't think the Xeons will do any better than base core2 class, it seems like the core benchmark routines are fitting into cache much earlier in the CPU family tree, maybe only taking 16kB, so the cache size advantage won't do much, nor will bus or memory speeds.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 29 of 80, by oldhighgerman

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I guess you haven't been made aware of Mega-DOS, optimized for badarse server board. Please try to keep up.

Reply 30 of 80, by DarthSun

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BitWrangler wrote on 2024-08-09, 16:47:

I don't think the Xeons will do any better than base core2 class, it seems like the core benchmark routines are fitting into cache much earlier in the CPU family tree, maybe only taking 16kB, so the cache size advantage won't do much, nor will bus or memory speeds.

Yes, I also see that Core2 also produces a relatively high video speed, Xeon is smaller, probably native PCI implementation. At absolute speed, Zen2 can press both.

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 31 of 80, by DarthSun

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oldhighgerman wrote on 2024-08-09, 17:27:

I guess you haven't been made aware of Mega-DOS, optimized for badarse server board. Please try to keep up.

What is this Mega-Dos?, I was looking for, but only hooligan pages were thrown up by the Gugli.

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 32 of 80, by P-Tech

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What are you trying to do? Raw speed, or era correct fast?
Newer machines can likely do it, but it's a limited use case and most peripherals aren't compatible.
If it's to run some old applications, your really best off either porting them to something newer, or running them in a virtual environment.
As far as older machines, there is such a thing as too fast when it comes to DOS.
Raw speed just for the sake of conversation and speed, well, looks like that's the general direction so far.
As far as other acceptable answers, I think your use case drives what the best setup is.

Reply 33 of 80, by DarthSun

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P-Tech wrote on 2024-08-09, 18:26:
What are you trying to do? Raw speed, or era correct fast? Newer machines can likely do it, but it's a limited use case and mo […]
Show full quote

What are you trying to do? Raw speed, or era correct fast?
Newer machines can likely do it, but it's a limited use case and most peripherals aren't compatible.
If it's to run some old applications, your really best off either porting them to something newer, or running them in a virtual environment.
As far as older machines, there is such a thing as too fast when it comes to DOS.
Raw speed just for the sake of conversation and speed, well, looks like that's the general direction so far.
As far as other acceptable answers, I think your use case drives what the best setup is.

What are you trying to do? Raw speed, or era correct fast? - Each any
Newer machines can likely do it, but it's a limited use case and most peripherals aren't compatible. - No such today, with state -of -the -art drivers, the USB RGB keyboard/mouse also works under DOS/WIN98, and etc hardware...
As far as older machines, there is such a thing as too fast when it comes to DOS. - This is not true today, as CPUSPD can be slowed down to Zen2 to XT speed.

I have a lot of retro machines, but if I started today, I wouldn't have to, because with modern retro drivers, the new machine can be used as a complete retro.
I just not long ago the instructions from the Vogons forums, do you not read them? Except for Loew drivers, I have known them in the past.

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 34 of 80, by oldhighgerman

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I compared stats of the Xeon X5450 and the core 2 extreme qx9650, randomly chose the latter to compare to what I once owned, and astoundingly they:re identical in terms of various caches and nearly identical in performance.

Reply 35 of 80, by Riikcakirds

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Falcosoft wrote on 2024-07-30, 05:35:
Yes, but even DOS itself is running in pure real mode only if EMM386 is not loaded. When EMM386 is loaded the CPU itself is swit […]
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Dothan Burger wrote on 2024-07-29, 23:41:

Is realmode achieved by restarting into ms-dos mode and running Aida16?

Yes, but even DOS itself is running in pure real mode only if EMM386 is not loaded. When EMM386 is loaded the CPU itself is switched into protected/v86 mode.
But this does not mean that you could not test 32 -bit code performance in real mode or even 16-bit code performance in protected/v86 mode.
In both modes you can test both 16-bit and 32-bit code fragments.
In AIDA16 the MIPS16 part tests 16-bit performance and the MIPS32 part tests 32-bit performance.

If using a Pentium or any CPU that includes VME and loading EMM386 you will lose around 30-35% of your fpu performance in Dos when CPU is in V86 mode.
To get the real speed use JEMM386/EX to switch to protected /V86 mode as it does support VME.
I tested this on a Core2 in NSSI using its benchmark. The latest 1999 realease of EMM386 still does not support VME.

Reply 36 of 80, by edescourtis

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The purpose is to run real-mode-only software. No other consideration matters here (not graphics, etc.). What is the fastest real-mode CPU? Imagine purely a productivity or scientific application here (with or without x87).

Reply 37 of 80, by Matchstick

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Actually you CAN run DOS in real mode on any current CPU including Ryzen Zen4 and 14 series CPUs, as long the as the BIOS that has full legacy support options.

These would be the fastest cpus to run dos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXNHHUmVZh8

Reply 38 of 80, by DarthSun

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Matchstick wrote on 2024-08-15, 20:14:

Actually you CAN run DOS in real mode on any current CPU including Ryzen Zen4 and 14 series CPUs, as long the as the BIOS that has full legacy support options.

These would be the fastest cpus to run dos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXNHHUmVZh8

That's right. The X86/64 has the biggest grip, and no other system is close to it.
B450PRO+R3800X: It has UEFI+Legacy support in BIOS, and DOS runs great on this machine.

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 39 of 80, by zyzzle

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DarthSun wrote on 2024-08-15, 21:50:

That's right. The X86/64 has the biggest grip, and no other system is close to it.
B450PRO+R3800X: It has UEFI+Legacy support in BIOS, and DOS runs great on this machine.

But how is video support? Are VGA modes supported (320x200,320x240,640x350) as well as VESA modes on the R3800x onboard video? What is the onboard sound chipset? Is it compatible with SBEMU?