arncht wrote on 2024-01-18, 19:01:

At a typical crt the black was far from real black, and the top nit is also not comparable to the nowadays standards.

You would have to have a pretty bad CRT for that to be true though, even more so when compared to an LCD.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-01-19, 02:55:

arncht wrote on 2024-01-18, 19:01:

At a typical crt the black was far from real black, and the top nit is also not comparable to the nowadays standards.

You would have to have a pretty bad CRT for that to be true though, even more so when compared to an LCD.

Sure… everybody talking about the highend very late crts, it was not typical in the 90s. I also had 21” trinitron but it was around 2001-2002, before the lcds, it is terrible for dos. Most of the people used shitty crts at the dos age.

Really helpfull is a TFT that can change the blacklevel, like Nec 193mi. That helped me a lot when fixing too bright levels on macs and fuzzeling lines on Atari-ST.

arncht wrote on 2024-01-19, 06:32:

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-01-19, 02:55:

arncht wrote on 2024-01-18, 19:01:

At a typical crt the black was far from real black, and the top nit is also not comparable to the nowadays standards.

You would have to have a pretty bad CRT for that to be true though, even more so when compared to an LCD.

Sure… everybody talking about the highend very late crts, it was not typical in the 90s. I also had 21” trinitron but it was around 2001-2002, before the lcds, it is terrible for dos. Most of the people used shitty crts at the dos age.

Yeah I understand that part, in that most people didnt have the best tech at the time, but Im not sure how thats important to what we're talking about here and now.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-01-20, 04:36:

arncht wrote on 2024-01-19, 06:32:

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-01-19, 02:55:

You would have to have a pretty bad CRT for that to be true though, even more so when compared to an LCD.

Sure… everybody talking about the highend very late crts, it was not typical in the 90s. I also had 21” trinitron but it was around 2001-2002, before the lcds, it is terrible for dos. Most of the people used shitty crts at the dos age.

Yeah I understand that part, in that most people didnt have the best tech at the time, but Im not sure how thats important to what we're talking about here and now.

Then you can compare to oled, the crt is dead.

What 4:3 OLEDs have you found? that support DOS resolutions?

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-01-20, 19:07:

What 4:3 OLEDs have you found? that support DOS resolutions?

Why do you need 4:3? It is fine even on the ultrawide.

Industrial monitors are usually all 4:3, right?
Maybe we can get hold of an embedded monitor in near future that's based on a modern OLED panel?

Here you can use the oled for modern purposes, why is it good to limit just for 4:3? I did not get it.

arncht wrote on 2024-01-21, 06:10:

Here you can use the oled for modern purposes, why is it good to limit just for 4:3? I did not get it.

Personally, I want a kinda-period-correct-looking display next to my beige box. It's form over function, sure... but I like it.

arncht wrote on 2024-01-20, 20:37:

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-01-20, 19:07:

What 4:3 OLEDs have you found? that support DOS resolutions?

Why do you need 4:3? It is fine even on the ultrawide.

Where do all those extra pixels come from?
I mean theyre not part of the game are they.

arncht wrote on 2024-01-21, 06:10:

Here you can use the oled for modern purposes, why is it good to limit just for 4:3? I did not get it.

Um, personally I don't want a curved 21:9 screen with a glossy black finish and Ambilight. It irritates me. 🤷‍♂️

I'd rather have a small 4:3 panel I can install in a wooden box.

If needed I will paint it, so it looks a bit like a Commodore 1702 or similar monitor.

Or maybe, make it look like an IBM MDA monitor (design was cloned somewhat often).

The empty space in that box could be used to house a homemade linear power supply! ^^

Edit: There's a catch with the infamous 320x200 resolution (line doubled to 320x400; MCGA mode 13h): It uses non-square pixels.
A CRT doesn't care, because it's mostly working with lines.

320x240 (VGA mode x) and 640x480 (Standard VGA mode 12h) are using square-pixels. They look fine on flat-screens, too.

Edited.

Jo22 wrote on 2024-01-21, 11:55:

I'd rather have a small 4:3 panel I can install in a wooden box.

If you're already re-casing the thing, you could pillar(wooden)box a 16:9 panel. Modern bezels are slim, old displays' weren't, so with a bit of care it should come out looking somewhat decent.

elszgensa wrote on 2024-01-21, 12:48:

Jo22 wrote on 2024-01-21, 11:55:

I'd rather have a small 4:3 panel I can install in a wooden box.

If you're already re-casing the thing, you could pillar(wooden)box a 16:9 panel. Modern bezels are slim, old displays' weren't, so with a bit of care it should come out looking somewhat decent.

Yes, that's a good workaround.
Something similar came to mind when I thought about making an imitation of round CRT monitor (like those radar tubes).
Such monitors were being used to play Space War! and other mainframe games.

Hi Guys

My LG monitor that was doing double duty as a retro system display via an OSSC has packed up (27GN950-B).
It was nice because it could elegantly handle all the odd display resolutions thrown out by the OSSC.
I'm not replacing it so I'm looking for a dedicated retro only LCD.

Mainly looking for the cheapest, smallest monitor that'll support 70 Hz/ 75Hz VGA whether through a VGA port or via an OSSC.

p2425 (1st choice) or p2425h (2nd choice) from DELL look good
They have VGA as well and will accept all VGA resolutions.

Th p2425 is 1920x1200 (but more expensive) and P2425H is 1920x1080

They support up to 100HZ via HDMI or DisplayPort, which should be good for OSSC use.

The manual says:
Maximum preset resolution
• VGA: 1920 x 1200 at 60 Hz
• DisplayPort and HDMI: 1920 x 1200 at 100 Hz

and I can't find anything that definitively it supports higher than 60Hz from the VGA port
although it'll certainly accept all th 70Hz and 75Hz resolutions

https://dl.dell.com/content/manual18231535-de … ?language=en-us

I wonder if anyone has one of these?
I may try one at some point.

16k wrote on 2024-07-19, 22:53:

Hi Guys […]
Show full quote

Hi Guys

My LG monitor that was doing double duty as a retro system display via an OSSC has packed up (27GN950-B).
It was nice because it could elegantly handle all the odd display resolutions thrown out by the OSSC.
I'm not replacing it so I'm looking for a dedicated retro only LCD.

Mainly looking for the cheapest, smallest monitor that'll support 70 Hz/ 75Hz VGA whether through a VGA port or via an OSSC.

p2425 (1st choice) or p2425h (2nd choice) from DELL look good
They have VGA as well and will accept all VGA resolutions.

Th p2425 is 1920x1200 (but more expensive) and P2425H is 1920x1080

They support up to 100HZ via HDMI or DisplayPort, which should be good for OSSC use.

The manual says:
Maximum preset resolution
• VGA: 1920 x 1200 at 60 Hz
• DisplayPort and HDMI: 1920 x 1200 at 100 Hz

and I can't find anything that definitively it supports higher than 60Hz from the VGA port
although it'll certainly accept all th 70Hz and 75Hz resolutions

https://dl.dell.com/content/manual18231535-de … ?language=en-us

I wonder if anyone has one of these?
I may try one at some point.

The Dell P1917S 19inch 5:4 IPS does 75hz and 70hz. It does handle DOS gaming but I still wouldn't recommend it, I can post pictures if you want. Most of these modern IPS panels are not authentic LG panels with great viewing angles. If I absolutely had to have an LCD I would probably go with one of those old Dell 20inchers with a VA panel.

For me an OLED or LCD are not replacements to a nice CRT because retro gaming has lots of weird resolutions that a fixed resolution panel just can't handle as well.

Thanks for the suggestion of the P1917S, I don't think I need pictures, I sort of know what to expect.

I agree regarding CRTs, I do have a CRT, however the purpose of the LCD is to retain easy and convenient access to the output
of my vintage PCs without lugging the CRT around. Hopefully doing it without too many compromises.

For me the 70Hz and 75Hz low res DOS resolution outputs are paramount, and not just accepting the signal and displaying 60Hz while dropping frames.
Aspect ratio control is important, although I don't care if the actual panel is 16:9 or 16:10 instead of 4:3. OSSC may help here.

I dug up some more cheapies in my country, these ones from MSI:
PRO MP253 - Looks good comes with vga - IPS
MP251 - IPS - comes with VGA port
MD271P, MD271P, MD271QP all look good for dos modes
MP2412 looks good, HDMI and Displayport only though and a VA panel

My work has some of those MSI models, so I may take my vintage PC in to test.

16k wrote on 2024-07-21, 01:50:

Thanks for the suggestion of the P1917S, I don't think I need pictures, I sort of know what to expect. […]
Show full quote

Thanks for the suggestion of the P1917S, I don't think I need pictures, I sort of know what to expect.

I agree regarding CRTs, I do have a CRT, however the purpose of the LCD is to retain easy and convenient access to the output
of my vintage PCs without lugging the CRT around. Hopefully doing it without too many compromises.

For me the 70Hz and 75Hz low res DOS resolution outputs are paramount, and not just accepting the signal and displaying 60Hz while dropping frames.
Aspect ratio control is important, although I don't care if the actual panel is 16:9 or 16:10 instead of 4:3. OSSC may help here.

I dug up some more cheapies in my country, these ones from MSI:
PRO MP253 - Looks good comes with vga - IPS
MP251 - IPS - comes with VGA port
MD271P, MD271P, MD271QP all look good for dos modes
MP2412 looks good, HDMI and Displayport only though and a VA panel

My work has some of those MSI models, so I may take my vintage PC in to test.

For proper 4:3 aspect ratio of DOS 320x200 modes, the monitor must support a forced 4:3 mode, or you will get a stretched image. This is required even if one uses an OSSC .

Oops that's right, thanks Darry, I just double checked now:

My old LG 27GN950-B, performs well with the OSSC with 4:3 aspect ratio, when I set the input to to "Original".
Ignore the vertical stripe in the middle, as I said the panel is broken.

I better double check the OSD options for aspect ratio in the manuals!
The Dells I mentioned above have an aspect ratio in their manual : https://dl.dell.com/content/manual18231535-de … ?language=en-us

Unfortunately I couldn't find a reference to an aspect ratio control in the MSI monitor manuals 🙁.
I guess I'll find out when I test them at work.

Ah found it in the MSI manuals for the MP2412 and MP251, I was searching for Aspect Ratio. They called it "Screen Size". Allows setting 4:3, 16:9 or "Auto"