Modern capabilities have made the retro experience - and our access to it - so much more than it actually was back in the <1990s.

The only thing missing is our youth, but that is no fault of the PC.

For me it happened around 2008, with the introduction of the Core i processors from Intel. Last desktop PC I build was a Core 2 Duo in 2007, pretty much lost interest in newer PCs after that.

Riikcakirds wrote on 2024-06-26, 15:18:

For me it happened around 2008, with the introduction of the Core i processors from Intel. Last desktop PC I build was a Core 2 Duo in 2007, pretty much lost interest in newer PCs after that.

Funnily enough, Core 2 is also the last time I built a PC (have a couple of Core 2 Quad/Extreme systems from that era).
Since then I've bought 3 desktops, but they've all been pre-assembled by the shop, because it was easier this way.

Riikcakirds wrote on 2024-06-26, 15:18:

For me it happened around 2008, with the introduction of the Core i processors from Intel. Last desktop PC I build was a Core 2 Duo in 2007, pretty much lost interest in newer PCs after that.

I took a long sabbatical from PC building/gaming around this time too. Built a screaming fast PC I was very proud of in 2007, and then just mostly replaced parts when they broke with whatever was contemporary. Wasn't really tracking what CPU's or GPU's were even a thing. In part the branding got a lot more confusing and less exciting. Just endless various of Intel Core i3/5/7 followed by a series of random numbers that made no intuitive sense. Geforce suffered a similar fate, especially with their numbering wrapping around in a sense when they went from Geforce 1/2/3/4000/5000/6000/7000/8000/9000 then back to 100? Now we're back around to 4000 again.

I will say, Ryzen X3D chips and RTX cards are exciting for me again, and I'm fully back on board. But something about that long, boring, Intel dominated era just tuned me out.

Things lost soul for me when I stopped being able to keep up with the cost of having a somewhat modern system for gaming. For me personally this corresponds to around 1998 when running a pentium 166 was starting to feel long in the tooth, with no 3d card most new games ran terribly or with very reduced graphics and framerates. The dos era basically ended then as well as that was also a huge contributor to how I felt. We'd essentially had the last of the high profile big budget dos games at that point with grand theft auto 1, mdk and carmageddon. Dos gaming had been ubiquitous with my PC experience up to that point, so having that era dry up and turn into 3d accelerated windows games that barely worked and in some cases looked worse and ran worse on my system than dos games that had come out a few years earlier kinda irked me.

Coming back to things as an adult, pentium 1 era gaming and hardware is my favorite and the only old hardware I really care about.

I guess I held out longer than everyone else. I even lasted through the performance problems I had with multiple Sandy Bridge systems (where the only thing they had in common was the CPU generation) and so many people telling me that I was wrong because they had such high Passmark scores (I still remember being told that the heatsink must have been plugged with dust on a brand-new computer). That still didn't make PCs lose their "soul" because there was still some variety and software still respected the user. It just made me give up on new CPUs for a while (to the point of being prepared to run used Core 2 stuff).

ncmark wrote on 2024-06-22, 17:45:

When the policies got too heavy-handed - software activation, subscription based software, etc
When it got to where you could no longer just buy something on a disk and install it without being connected to the internet

Yeah, subscriptions and always-online gaming are two more problems that I have. Also, games being download-only and constantly increasing in size mean that I don't have the Internet speed to play modern AAA games even if I wanted to. They're far past the point where mailing me physical media would be faster than waiting for the download.

My interest in modern hardware died with Windows 10/11, then returned once I discovered Arch Linux, so... never.

GemCookie wrote on 2024-07-03, 08:57:

My interest in modern hardware died with Windows 10/11, then returned once I discovered Arch Linux, so... never.

i'd say never too, on reflection

maybe the point at which the PC is a closed commodity good where in there is no (convenient) means to alter either hardware or software it will be dull

but then i see smart phones like that, yet many folk enjoy all kinds of mods in software, sometimes even hardware so i guess anything is hackable given time, ingenuity and knowledge

I don't know if I can pinpoint a date, but computing was exciting in the 80's and 90's. Innovation was relatively fast. I liked open standards (or at least legally unenforceable ones). Socket 7 seemed to be the high point of this - a ton tech companies tried their hand at x86 cpus. Also, so many graphics card manufacturers were also in play at this time. Then legal restrictions and competition killed most manufactures off, or they evolved to niche computing applications.

I love the hobby projects that exist still supporting these old systems, I wish closed legal standards would expire after a few years. How cool would it be if someone released modern overdrive CPU's for old platforms - like shoehorn a ryzen into socket 775? But instead we continue to evolve towards closed standard, walled software environments, ect.

Maybe Quantum / AI / NPU has the potential to re-energize personal computing.

BinaryDemon wrote on 2024-07-03, 13:57:

I don't know if I can pinpoint a date, but computing was exciting in the 80's and 90's. Innovation was relatively fast. I liked open standards (or at least legally unenforceable ones). Socket 7 seemed to be the high point of this - a ton tech companies tried their hand at x86 cpus. Also, so many graphics card manufacturers were also in play at this time. Then legal restrictions and competition killed most manufactures off, or they evolved to niche computing applications.

I love the hobby projects that exist still supporting these old systems, I wish closed legal standards would expire after a few years. How cool would it be if someone released modern overdrive CPU's for old platforms - like shoehorn a ryzen into socket 775? But instead we continue to evolve towards closed standard, walled software environments, ect.

Maybe Quantum / AI / NPU has the potential to re-energize personal computing.

I forget when it happened, I'm not sure I even noticed at the time. But I think circa 2015 or so when my 2007 motherboard croaked and I went to buy a new one I discovered to my disappointment that there weren't third party chipsets anymore. No more VIA, or nForce, or anything. It was just different brands using Intel chipsets for Intel motherboards or AMD chipsets for AMD motherboards. It was profoundly boring, and to your point, not only was the Socket 7 platform the high water mark of CPU manufacturers, but also chipset's I think.

BinaryDemon wrote on 2024-07-03, 13:57:

I love the hobby projects that exist still supporting these old systems, I wish closed legal standards would expire after a few years. How cool would it be if someone released modern overdrive CPU's for old platforms - like shoehorn a ryzen into socket 775?

I do have a sentimental attachment to Socket 775, but let's be real - no company will spend its resources on reviving a 20-year-old socket when there are better ways to compete in the CPU market.

GemCookie wrote on 2024-07-05, 08:45:

BinaryDemon wrote on 2024-07-03, 13:57:

I love the hobby projects that exist still supporting these old systems, I wish closed legal standards would expire after a few years. How cool would it be if someone released modern overdrive CPU's for old platforms - like shoehorn a ryzen into socket 775?

I do have a sentimental attachment to Socket 775, but let's be real - no company will spend its resources on reviving a 20-year-old socket when there are better ways to compete in the CPU market.

Realistically no. Companies already change chipsets far more often then needed just to force hardware upgrades. But let me dream of what could have been in an ideal world. 😀

BinaryDemon wrote on 2024-07-03, 13:57:

. How cool would it be if someone released modern overdrive CPU's for old platforms - like shoehorn a ryzen into socket 775? But instead we continue to evolve towards closed standard, walled software environments, ect.

AMD couldn't jam a modern core into 775 because they don't have the bus protocol license. But they also wouldn't bother because the platform is extremely limited. Low Max memory addressable, slow io, and a lot of effort for a low volume part with low margins.

Intel could probably jam a current gen into as far back as 1151,but they wouldn't bother.

The only hope you might have had was VIA, but their x86 license expired.

That said, from memory, all of x86-32s patents have expired, so it's theoretically possible for a hobbies chip to exist.

myne wrote on 2024-07-05, 11:21:

AMD couldn't jam a modern core into 775 because they don't have the bus protocol license. But they also wouldn't bother because […]
Show full quote

BinaryDemon wrote on 2024-07-03, 13:57:

. How cool would it be if someone released modern overdrive CPU's for old platforms - like shoehorn a ryzen into socket 775? But instead we continue to evolve towards closed standard, walled software environments, ect.

AMD couldn't jam a modern core into 775 because they don't have the bus protocol license. But they also wouldn't bother because the platform is extremely limited. Low Max memory addressable, slow io, and a lot of effort for a low volume part with low margins.

Intel could probably jam a current gen into as far back as 1151,but they wouldn't bother.

The only hope you might have had was VIA, but their x86 license expired.

That said, from memory, all of x86-32s patents have expired, so it's theoretically possible for a hobbies chip to exist.

I have wondered about how patenting things like bus protocols works. I was under the impression that reverse engineering something like a bus protocol for interoperability purposes, rather than trying to get a license was actually legally possible in at least some situation (and jurisdictions), but I am not a lawyer, BTW. That being said, even if it is legally permissible, it might still need to go through at least some expensive litigation steps to have a court affirm that it is indeed legally permissible in a specific scenario. This would add to the costs. Once patents have expired, this would be moot, AFAIU.

Hm, not sure I would strictly link it to PC losing soul, but when Google Chrome took over the internet. When developers package something together with Electron and call it an app.

Was reading through this thread today - and it is making me want to value retro hardware. II am rather glad I kept that A7V333 with the bulging capacitors. It COULD be made usable again. and in some ways that board is near the end of the line - some of the last that could still run win9x

UCyborg wrote on 2024-07-12, 06:20:

Hm, not sure I would strictly link it to PC losing soul, but when Google Chrome took over the internet. When developers package something together with Electron and call it an app.

That to me is the sign the soul is gone.

Most people I know off the clock only use their phone anymore for everything. Few use a computer for much anymore except Job related things.

I'm using mostly older PCs running DOS and Linux for creative and techie fun purposes these days, for stuff the mainstreamers always ask me "why" about. Because to them "there's an app for that" or somesuch ....ie....

BBS = Social Media
IRC = Social Media
FTP = whazzat? insecure!!
Telnet = Zoom/Teams (uh no, more like techie stuff like BBS and oldschool email)
SSH = You mistyped "shhhh"
DAW = Bandlab, or A.I.
WEB = Google Chrome
YT = Why not make silly shorts?
HTML = Try Godaddy or CSS!
Writing = ChatGPT
GfX = You need Adobe!
MIDI = what is this 1993? Get Suno!
FORUMS = FB Groups
GAMES = you need a new PC
DOS Games = DOSBOX
Linux = are you a hacker? Whazat?
DOS = what, a denial of service attack? You hacker?
486 = what in the name of Aliexpress and Temu kind of chip is that? A Dorito?

Pentium 4 (S478/S775) had someting not for me (soulless), maybe it was missing isa slot motherboards and maybe back then i liked my Celeron A/Pentium 3. I like sockets that can handle different type of cpu makers, not just intel or amd, back then we had more options to choose from, even socket370 had Cyrix/Via.

Soul was gone when cable phones turned wireless phones, when internet over cable became mostly to WiFi, when mobile phones became huge smartphones. Soul was gone when 2G phones did get 3G internet and trend continued when 4G turned to 5G and so on. Devices get smarter, but does humans evolve with it?

These days you can come across people saying they prefer playing games on their smartphone rather than PC. Used to have a game or two on my smartphone, but not anymore. I'm insisting on an older low-end model from 2014 and only have essentials. Was actually more into mobile games back in the era of J2ME games on dumb phones. I do like using phone for reading forums and such content on the internet, just like not being confined to that chair near computer.

Since WiFi was mentioned, in my experience, speeds still suck even when you're right near the access point. It may not matter as much for web browsing, but good 'ol cable is hard to beat. And I think it would be better if air wasn't as crowded with radio signals as it is.

About devices being smarter and whether humans still evolve, logically, I would think they make us lazier. Devices' designers on the other hand, well they had put effort into them to make them work, right? I admit I'm more on stagnating side, not sure if devices are to blame or not. I've had more contact with computers throughout my life than people, sooo... I still remember a classmate from elementary school's earlier years telling me he thought computer was my only friend.

Hosting own game servers...yeah, good in theory, but IMO it wasn't what it was cracked to be. The amount of crappy servers that were out there, either running the same old boring maps all the time, other weird combos of game rules, wanting you to play the game "their" way and kicking/banning you otherwise, downloading crap to your computer...oh, not totally related to how servers are hosted, but also remote code execution vulnerabilities:

https://techcrunch.com/2023/02/28/gamers-are- … ver-by-hackers/
https://www.csoonline.com/article/538902/data … me-engines.html
https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/22/22896785/d … oit-online-hack
https://www.itpro.com/security/vulnerability/ … ecution-attacks

Humans were shitty, are shitty and will remain shitty until the extinction event. I guess a misanthrope is better off sticking with single-player to avoid at least some of the crap.