Any NAS that can serve (the very insecure) SMB v1 and/or FTP should be fine.

(...and I totally agree with you and share the same feeling about tinkering wit hold computers - I have spent only 25 years in this industry and the passion is fading away...)

My dream NAS would also emulate Novell NetWare server.
Novell client seems the most convenient way to network DOS machines, as it occupies much less memory than SMB and NFS clients.

Reportedly it's possible to add IPX support to modern Linux, and run Mars NWE, but not easy...

Grzyb wrote on 2023-12-05, 20:56:

My dream NAS would also emulate Novell NetWare server.

Oh, God. I remember using NetWare in my secondary school's computer lab. IIRC it had a TSR that enabled you to mount shares from the teacher's computer.
Never used it afterwards, though. By the time I got to university all the desktop machines in the labs were running Windows.

yep, ftp server is gold. even my tandy 1000sx has an 10mbit network card!

Fellow industry worker for 20+ years. The fatigue is real. Retrocomputing is so refreshing! 😁

I've also setup a FTP on my Synology NAS for all my retro machines. Works wonders and I don't need anything more.

RetroNAS - open source server software for your retro machines

Come to think of it, yet another network filesystem software for DOS has appeared recently: EtherDFS.
The client only occupies 8 KB of RAM.

Maybe there's no need for Novell emulation anymore?
If DOS is covered by EtherDFS, and other systems by SMB and/or NFS, then why bother with the no-longer-maintained Mars NWE?

On the other hand, IPX support is useful for old multiplayer games...
So, if we install IPX anyway, why not use it for filesystem as well?

Grzyb wrote on 2023-12-06, 15:12:

Come to think of it, yet another network filesystem software for DOS has appeared recently: EtherDFS.

I considered it briefly but ultimately decided against it. IIRC the reasons were that it is a proprietary protocol, and I didn't want to restrict my setup to DOS only. Plus, I don't think the server was available for BSD.

Boohyaka wrote on 2023-12-06, 13:48:

I've also setup a FTP on my Synology NAS for all my retro machines. Works wonders and I don't need anything more.

Yes, I did set up FTP as well as it is super versatile and supported by pretty much every client. On the other hand I find it super convenient to open an NFS share in one Norton Commander panel and just move files between the NAS and the local disk that way. So far I haven't found an FTP client for DOS that provides similar user experience.

Babasha wrote on 2023-12-06, 14:49:

RetroNAS - open source server software for your retro machines

I really like the RetroNAS project. It was on my short list for a while but in the end, for the reasons outlined in the linked articles, decided not to go with it.

Hey this is great, nicely done (and documented!). I found retro tech to bring the same joy for sure, whether it be a reminder of my early career racking and stacking brand new Dell PowerEdge 1650's, or just simply more fun than fighting with SaaS solutions and arguing with cloud service providers nowadays.

I have primarily been storing and making games and software available to a variety of retro machines, over the network, for several years now. I wrote some of the process and configuration down a while back: Retro game/storage/backup server for older systems

..and it turns out, since then not much has changed with Windows Server 2003 R2, so it's all still valid.

One thing I did do very recently was swap out the Optiplex SFF machine I was using as a retro server, for a Beelink mini PC. That machine runs Proxmox. Here's how I adapted things beyond that:

-the Server 2003 instance is now virtualized (and I can back it up via snapshots to my "main" server running TrueNAS SCALE, which is super cool)
-an LXC container running Debian, and a somewhat modified RetroNAS configuration, now handles all the SMBv1 interaction to clients.
-the actual software, games and other files are stored on TrueNAS and served via NFS to the RetroNAS container. Again this is in the spirit of redundancy, backups, etc.

For OS installs, diagnostics and such.. I still very much use PXE..floppies and CDs are very rarely used.

Windows Server 2003 is the last version with IPX support, right?
Might be yet another option for serving files to DOS clients...

Microsoft Network Client using TCP/IP occupies a lot of RAM, but somewhat less if using IPX.

Grzyb wrote on 2023-12-06, 20:32:

Windows Server 2003 is the last version with IPX support, right?
Might be yet another option for serving files to DOS clients...

You don't even need to restrict yourself to Server 2003. There are third-party NFS servers that run on modern Windows. This one is like a 100KB standalone app, which I've tested on Windows 10. I can connect to it using XFS from DOS and it works like a charm.

Also, totally off topic but is your signature from "Return from the Stars"? I don't speak Polish but I was curious and ran it through Google Translate. You must be so lucky to be able to read Lem in the original language.

nicksretrocave wrote on 2023-12-06, 21:16:

You don't even need to restrict yourself to Server 2003. There are third-party NFS servers that run on modern Windows. This one is like a 100KB standalone app, which I've tested on Windows 10. I can connect to it using XFS from DOS and it works like a charm.

OK, but how much memory does that XFS occupy?

My point is:
I can load Microsoft Network Client and connect to modern Linux with Samba, copy files around, but... then I need to reboot to free the memory.
The Client occupies so much RAM that's pretty much impossible to normally use the system.

So I'm looking for less memory-hungry options - as of yet I'm aware of the following:
- Microsoft Network Client using IPX
- Novell NetWare client
- EtherDFS

Also, totally off topic but is your signature from "Return from the Stars"? I don't speak Polish but I was curious and ran it through Google Translate. You must be so lucky to be able to read Lem in the original language.

Yes!
Google Translate handles it pretty well, in the English edition (Harvest/HBJ) it's translated as "The planetary bioplasm, its decaying mud, is the dawn of existence, the initial phase, and lot from the bloody, dough-brained cometh copper. . ."
And yes, I've been a fan of Lem since my childhood.

Grzyb wrote on 2023-12-06, 22:28:

OK, but how much memory does that XFS occupy? […]
Show full quote

OK, but how much memory does that XFS occupy?

My point is:
I can load Microsoft Network Client and connect to modern Linux with Samba, copy files around, but... then I need to reboot to free the memory.
The Client occupies so much RAM that's pretty much impossible to normally use the system.

So I'm looking for less memory-hungry options - as of yet I'm aware of the following:
- Microsoft Network Client using IPX
- Novell NetWare client
- EtherDFS

You are right. The full SMB client stack on DOS is massive. Right now I boot that from a PXE-hosted floppy image and basically its only purpose is to copy files locally for OS installs (DOS-Win9x). I can't actually start Win9x setup for example though, because all memory is just gone.

Server 2003 indeed can be coerced to speak IPX (if I recall correctly - it was one of those things that was left on the CD to manually install, in a kind of "if you really insist" fashion..)
..but then you've got IPX flying around on your network, in addition to maybe NetBIOS, probably TCP/IP.

I personally didn't administer Novell systems back in the day, so that is far less familiar to me. Maybe it's the best thing for DOS, I don't really know.

So in my opinion (if we're going to the length of putting DOS on the network), the least disruptive option is EtherDFS. In its simplicity it throws out any kind of security, but it's going to be the simplest to deploy, the smallest memory footprint on the client, and the least chatty on your network. Otherwise, I figure starting Windows for Workgroups, accessing a Windows or Samba-based share, and then exiting back out to DOS is a good option.

edit=I found this on XFS: https://www.toughdev.com/content/2018/08/usin … nd-ms-dos-6-22/

doogie wrote on 2023-12-07, 01:31:

So in my opinion (if we're going to the length of putting DOS on the network), the least disruptive option is EtherDFS. In its simplicity it throws out any kind of security, but it's going to be the simplest to deploy, the smallest memory footprint on the client, and the least chatty on your network. Otherwise, I figure starting Windows for Workgroups, accessing a Windows or Samba-based share, and then exiting back out to DOS is a good option.

This is how I do it.
I actually load the drivers needed for dos IPX network games every boot as they don't take up that much memory.
I only start windows networking when loading into Windows for Workgroups which may not be for months at a time.

Can't remember if I have IPX in WFW, I definitely have both IPX and TCP in Win9x/XP, again for gaming but only have TCP enabled for file and print sharing.

Grzyb wrote on 2023-12-06, 22:28:

OK, but how much memory does that XFS occupy? […]
Show full quote

OK, but how much memory does that XFS occupy?

My point is:
I can load Microsoft Network Client and connect to modern Linux with Samba, copy files around, but... then I need to reboot to free the memory.
The Client occupies so much RAM that's pretty much impossible to normally use the system.

Just checked. The XFS kernel takes about 53KB on my MS-DOS 6.22 system. It can be pushed to upper memory, so the only impact on conventional memory is the packet driver (about 2KB).
The kernel can also be loaded/unloaded on demand so there is no need to reboot once you are done. Overall, it's not that bad.

The winner is definitely Novell Client32 using 32-bit ODI driver - Re: FTP client TSR for DOS?