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socket 478 woes

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First post, by JayAlien

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I'm not having a fun evening with my retro hobby.

I'm building a socket 478 system, ASUS P4P800-E with a P4-3.2e and an FX5900.

First problem, I broke off off a capacitor off the GPU:

Re: Capacitor Identification

replaced it, think the card is fried, computer just pulses fans for a microsecond, then nothing.

So moved on to plan B, I had a Radeon X700 AGP (With PCIe bridge) laying around. Installed it, drivers installed no problems.

Added a Audigy 2, drivers installed, sound is working. Reboot, then nothing, no post.

Took sound card out, no post.

Tried a Radeon 9700 which I had temporarily had in the PC, no post

Clear CMOS, no post

Next I'm building a trebuchet to launch this thing into space, maybe I can take out a balloon if my aim is good.

any ideas, I'm at the end of my string with this one?

Last edited by JayAlien on 2023-04-21, 03:55. Edited 1 time in total.

386sx25 SBP2 2M
P75(486) SB16 8M
P133 S3 Vir DX A64g 32M
P233MMX R128Pro A64 64M
Pii400 TNT2 Live! 128M
P3-1G V5 M80 256M
P3-1.4G R8500 A1 256M
A3200 9700Pro A2 512M
X6800 X850XT A2ZS 1G
E8600 X1950XTX Xfi 2G
QX9650 3870 Xfi 2G
i7-975 GTX570 Xfi 3GB

Reply 1 of 22, by Horun

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Bet it is Bad Caps ! If you have a low end Celery try it. I had a P4 board that would not run that faster bus cpu's but would a 400 and 533. It was failing caps (higher speeds generally means more current) that could not handle the fast power hungry cpu's//

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 2 of 22, by JayAlien

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Yes could be the caps, none are bulging but they still could be going off. It's also possible I fried the CPU with inadequate Prescott cooling.
I only have a few other P4HTs and reluctant to risk them.

386sx25 SBP2 2M
P75(486) SB16 8M
P133 S3 Vir DX A64g 32M
P233MMX R128Pro A64 64M
Pii400 TNT2 Live! 128M
P3-1G V5 M80 256M
P3-1.4G R8500 A1 256M
A3200 9700Pro A2 512M
X6800 X850XT A2ZS 1G
E8600 X1950XTX Xfi 2G
QX9650 3870 Xfi 2G
i7-975 GTX570 Xfi 3GB

Reply 3 of 22, by Nexxen

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JayAlien wrote on 2023-02-15, 02:33:

Yes could be the caps, none are bulging but they still could be going off. It's also possible I fried the CPU with inadequate Prescott cooling.
I only have a few other P4HTs and reluctant to risk them.

Such low spirit for adventure... 🙁
Can we have a pic of the board?

PC#1 Pentium 233 MMX - 98SE
PC#2 PIII-1Ghz - 98SE/W2K

Reply 4 of 22, by JayAlien

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Of course, I disconnected the second CPU power cable so it didn't obscure the view.

386sx25 SBP2 2M
P75(486) SB16 8M
P133 S3 Vir DX A64g 32M
P233MMX R128Pro A64 64M
Pii400 TNT2 Live! 128M
P3-1G V5 M80 256M
P3-1.4G R8500 A1 256M
A3200 9700Pro A2 512M
X6800 X850XT A2ZS 1G
E8600 X1950XTX Xfi 2G
QX9650 3870 Xfi 2G
i7-975 GTX570 Xfi 3GB

Reply 5 of 22, by Horun

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JayAlien wrote on 2023-02-15, 02:33:

Yes could be the caps, none are bulging but they still could be going off. It's also possible I fried the CPU with inadequate Prescott cooling.
I only have a few other P4HTs and reluctant to risk them.

Actually it is a bit hard to fry a P4 cpu unless it has been overclocked for a long time (something about electron migration depletion, I forget the exact term).
I still think either the board or your PSU has failed. You never said where you got the board, the cpu or how long it ran stable before this issue came up 😀

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 6 of 22, by JayAlien

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I got the board and CPU off amibay recently. It’s still on my build bench, so ‘ran stable’ for the few hours it took me to build, install win xp and get the drivers on.. maybe 3 hours?
PSU is new:

Thermaltake SMART 600W ATX 12V V2.3/EPS 12V 80 Plus Certified Active PFC Power Supply PS-SPD-0600NPCWUS-W

Thanks!

386sx25 SBP2 2M
P75(486) SB16 8M
P133 S3 Vir DX A64g 32M
P233MMX R128Pro A64 64M
Pii400 TNT2 Live! 128M
P3-1G V5 M80 256M
P3-1.4G R8500 A1 256M
A3200 9700Pro A2 512M
X6800 X850XT A2ZS 1G
E8600 X1950XTX Xfi 2G
QX9650 3870 Xfi 2G
i7-975 GTX570 Xfi 3GB

Reply 7 of 22, by Repo Man11

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If you have a voltmeter, check the CMOS battery's voltage. If you don't (and the battery isn't brand new), try replacing it. Every now and then there is a motherboard that won't POST without a CMOS battery.

"We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they would be easy."

Reply 8 of 22, by JayAlien

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Ah I was hopeful with the CMOS battery suggestion. I've tried two batteries, one reading 3.0v and one reading 3.1v to no avail.

386sx25 SBP2 2M
P75(486) SB16 8M
P133 S3 Vir DX A64g 32M
P233MMX R128Pro A64 64M
Pii400 TNT2 Live! 128M
P3-1G V5 M80 256M
P3-1.4G R8500 A1 256M
A3200 9700Pro A2 512M
X6800 X850XT A2ZS 1G
E8600 X1950XTX Xfi 2G
QX9650 3870 Xfi 2G
i7-975 GTX570 Xfi 3GB

Reply 9 of 22, by bogdanpaulb

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I don'like the looks of that cap but maybe is from the way the picture was taken. Also remove everything, but the cpu (video/ram/sound card) , connect a test card or if don't have one a pc speaker , clear cmos and power it on.

Reply 10 of 22, by Socket3

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Asus P4P800 (especially the E and SE) is known for EEPROM chip / bios and some other issues. If you have an EEPROM writer, take the chip out and re-flash it. Better yet, replace the chip with a winbond of the same capacity, flashed with the correct bios. Even better, launch it off a trebuchet as posted above, and find an Abit AI7 or IS7. If you really want to stick with Asus, try sourcing an Asus P4C800, they're pretty solid.

Reply 11 of 22, by Roman555

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JayAlien wrote on 2023-02-15, 02:55:

Of course, I disconnected the second CPU power cable so it didn't obscure the view.

I don't like darken lacquer near two mosfets between AGP and PCI. I think they have been very hot during long period of time. They do +1.5v voltage for chipset and AGP graphic card.
Asus often set there something like APM3055, APM3054, APM2054 that proved themselves as not so good and reliable. If they are AP9915 then it's much better.
So turn on the system and measure voltage on a pin #3 ("source", most nearest to AGP) of the top (on the photo) mosfet .
Voltage measurement should be done using a multimeter in voltage meter mode, the black tip - to GND, the red tip - to point of measurement.

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Reply 12 of 22, by JayAlien

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I finally got some time to take another look at this motherboard today. I found a 2.8GHz Celeron in my parts box, installed it, added a random AGP card, and I was able to power the board up.
As I took out the P4 and cleaned the thermal paste off I noticed some slight discoloration on the cpu. I may put the P4 back in and give it another try. It was generating some warmth so not completely dead.

The discoloration got me to wondering; the discoloration may be due to an overheat. My cooling solution is a cheap socket 478 cooler, with a noctua fan slapped on top. Is this enough? I do have another P4 3.2 but if I've cooked one, I don't want to fry the other.

386sx25 SBP2 2M
P75(486) SB16 8M
P133 S3 Vir DX A64g 32M
P233MMX R128Pro A64 64M
Pii400 TNT2 Live! 128M
P3-1G V5 M80 256M
P3-1.4G R8500 A1 256M
A3200 9700Pro A2 512M
X6800 X850XT A2ZS 1G
E8600 X1950XTX Xfi 2G
QX9650 3870 Xfi 2G
i7-975 GTX570 Xfi 3GB

Reply 13 of 22, by bogdanpaulb

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Desktop s478 pentium4's are very 'hot', especially the ones running at fsb800. Also failing caps can cause that (less power hungry cpus like celerons to post and other not), you can test the cpu on another board to see if it's stil functional, if not, you should get a better cooler, or try mobile versions if your motherboard supports them.

Reply 14 of 22, by ODwilly

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Horun wrote on 2023-02-15, 00:42:

Bet it is Bad Caps ! If you have a low end Celery try it. I had a P4 board that would not run that faster bus cpu's but would a 400 and 533. It was failing caps (higher speeds generally means more current) that could not handle the fast power hungry cpu's//

Agreed with this. My capacitor knowledge started with upgrading a 2.4ghz to a 2.8ghz P4 on my Soyo. Went from random sporadic issues to hard freezing once the CPU hit 100% load in Windows. Also ran into lots of minor weirdness until I replaced the secondary caps later on.

Main pc: Asus ROG 17. R9 5900HX, RTX 3070m, 16gb ddr4 3200, 1tb NVME.
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Reply 15 of 22, by bogdanpaulb

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Yes, that's also why when i test a 478 board, i use 2 cpu's. I have a 3ghz P4 and if i get no post i use a 2.4ghz celeron.

Reply 16 of 22, by chinny22

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Socket3 wrote on 2023-02-16, 17:09:

Asus P4P800 (especially the E and SE) is known for EEPROM chip / bios and some other issues. If you have an EEPROM writer, take the chip out and re-flash it. Better yet, replace the chip with a winbond of the same capacity, flashed with the correct bios. Even better, launch it off a trebuchet as posted above, and find an Abit AI7 or IS7. If you really want to stick with Asus, try sourcing an Asus P4C800, they're pretty solid.

Do you know why that is? Indeed i've a SE which luckily does turns on just to tell me I've a corrupt BIOS
Only PC i've had that's done it

Reply 17 of 22, by PcBytes

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chinny22 wrote on 2023-04-20, 09:26:
Socket3 wrote on 2023-02-16, 17:09:

Asus P4P800 (especially the E and SE) is known for EEPROM chip / bios and some other issues. If you have an EEPROM writer, take the chip out and re-flash it. Better yet, replace the chip with a winbond of the same capacity, flashed with the correct bios. Even better, launch it off a trebuchet as posted above, and find an Abit AI7 or IS7. If you really want to stick with Asus, try sourcing an Asus P4C800, they're pretty solid.

Do you know why that is? Indeed i've a SE which luckily does turns on just to tell me I've a corrupt BIOS
Only PC i've had that's done it

Corroded pins on BIOS chip very likely. I have a P4P800-E Deluxe here that needed a new BIOS chip just because the original one looked rotten as all hell.

@Socket3 - I wouldn't really rely on IS7 either. While better than the P4P800, these also had issues with their BIOS chips, from what I remember, albeit at software level (BIOS would corrupt itself, from what I remember from my BE6-II) though I wouldn't take a dying BIOS chip off the list.

"Enter at your own peril, past the bolted door..."
Main PC: i5 3470, GB B75M-D3H, 16GB RAM, 2x1TB
98SE : P3 650, Soyo SY-6BA+IV, 384MB RAM, 80GB

Reply 18 of 22, by ediflorianUS

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The board looks nice in the photos , you may try a diffrent PSU just for testing purpouse .
You should clean the Ram slots with contact cleaner , and rams.
If it boot's , upgrade or reflash the bios with l8test version.
If you have soldering skills , mount high-er voltage main rail Cap's same uf.

My 80486-S i66 Project

Reply 19 of 22, by Skyscraper

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I kind of doubt it's the caps as they look fine and rarely go bad on late Asus s478 boards.

In my experience BIOS (chip) issues like mentioned if the board powers on, shorted mosfet/mosfets in the CPU VRM circuit if it dosn't.

If the boards powers on and you have already replaced/reflashed the BIOS then keep the board powered on for a few hours. If it's the caps they might be persuaded to start working enough to let the board post.

Other things to try.

Another PSU like mentioned, especially if the board dosn't power on.
Other memory even if the memory used is known good.
Another video card.
Getting a POST-code card to see if there are any codes that could indicate where the issue is.

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