TrashPanda wrote on 2022-11-11, 10:26:

It seems to cover pretty much all the older pci gpus, even the newer unified shader pci gpus are affected.

🤣, why the hell do people buy those cards?
Boards who have the horsepower for these cards will always have a 16x PCIe slot.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-11-11, 10:26:

Might be like you say the sellers see pci and confuse it with pcie and price them as such.

I've also seen PCI cards tagged as AGP and priced as such.
That's why I say you shouldn't search for PCI in special. Those who are tagged as PCI are often either expensive or very quickly gone.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-11-11, 10:26:

That said, fx5500, gf6200 and 8400gs cards in pci can be had for pennies but none of them will post in a socket 7 board.

I also have a GeForce 4 MX440 which won't POST on a 430HX board.
Both my MX440 as well as my FX5500 run on VIA MVP3 (Super Socket 7). Even think the GeForce 6200 and Radeon 9250 did run on it. Not sure. But the board has AGP so PCI graphics cards are pretty pointless on this board. Pentium Pro boards (who don't ave AGP) should also be able to run these cards.

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-11-11, 12:32:

LOL, why the hell do people buy those cards? Boards who have the horsepower for these cards will always have a 16x PCIe slot. […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-11-11, 10:26:

It seems to cover pretty much all the older pci gpus, even the newer unified shader pci gpus are affected.

🤣, why the hell do people buy those cards?
Boards who have the horsepower for these cards will always have a 16x PCIe slot.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-11-11, 10:26:

Might be like you say the sellers see pci and confuse it with pcie and price them as such.

I've also seen PCI cards tagged as AGP and priced as such.
That's why I say you shouldn't search for PCI in special. Those who are tagged as PCI are often either expensive or very quickly gone.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-11-11, 10:26:

That said, fx5500, gf6200 and 8400gs cards in pci can be had for pennies but none of them will post in a socket 7 board.

I also have a GeForce 4 MX440 which won't POST on a 430HX board.
Both my MX440 as well as my FX5500 run on VIA MVP3 (Super Socket 7). Even think the GeForce 6200 and Radeon 9250 did run on it. Not sure. But the board has AGP so PCI graphics cards are pretty pointless on this board. Pentium Pro boards (who don't ave AGP) should also be able to run these cards.

They should but the ones I have appear to be the new knock off ones out of China and the fx5500 refuses to post on any pre AGP board. The 6200 is picky but I have a TX board it will post on but the HX, VX and FX boards I have won’t. The 8400 is much the same, I have a feeling a lot of it is simply due to insufficient pci voltage supply on older boards.

The 8400 is heading to a dual Tualatin build that doesn’t have AGP but is running XP, it’ll work fine in that board thankfully.

No post?

Adding 3.3v to pci adapter(Released)

Maybe^

Ydee wrote on 2022-11-11, 12:05:

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-11-11, 03:47:

Radeon 7000 is a good one. Also 7500 if you can find one.

Quadro2 several around here have had luck with

Socket 7 mobos are very picky about video cards. Don’t try anything newer than gf5 or radeon 9xx0 and use the oldest driver you can

If the drivers for Rage128 are too heavy for the P133 CPU, won't Radeon 7xxx make it even worse?

My radeon 7500 is the fastest socket 7 card I have (according to benchmarks with a 233mmx)

Ok, one question, what games that may need a Radeon 7000 PCI or a GeForce FX 5500 PCI could run on a Pentium 133.
In my opinion, a Pentium 133 is not useful after 1997.
For example, Unreal I think needed a 166MMX.
So I think the options for a Pentium 133 are Voodoo 1, TNT, PCX2 and Rage 128/XL, not the Rage or the Rage II because they are very slow.

In terms of price/performance, the Rage XL, even the cheap version, is the best option and quite compatible, although with some driver problems and functional performance. But again, for what you can play with a Pentium 133 it doesn't seem like a bad option to me, being realistic. I had good experience with the cheap version.

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote:

why the hell do people buy those cards?

Simple. Video decoding and smooth GUI acceleration in NT 6.x environment.

Hoping wrote on 2022-11-11, 13:18:

Ok, one question, what games that may need a Radeon 7000 PCI or a GeForce FX 5500 PCI could run on a Pentium 133. In my opinion, […]
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Ok, one question, what games that may need a Radeon 7000 PCI or a GeForce FX 5500 PCI could run on a Pentium 133.
In my opinion, a Pentium 133 is not useful after 1997.
For example, Unreal I think needed a 166MMX.
So I think the options for a Pentium 133 are Voodoo 1, TNT, PCX2 and Rage 128/XL, not the Rage or the Rage II because they are very slow.

In terms of price/performance, the Rage XL, even the cheap version, is the best option and quite compatible, although with some driver problems and functional performance. But again, for what you can play with a Pentium 133 it doesn't seem like a bad option to me, being realistic. I had good experience with the cheap version.

🤫 processors are upgradable

Might end up with a k6-3+ by time this is said and done. Lol

Hoping wrote on 2022-11-11, 13:18:

So I think the options for a Pentium 133 are Voodoo 1, TNT, PCX2 and Rage 128/XL, not the Rage or the Rage II because they are very slow.

Have you seen this chart?
https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/
ATI is not so good for 2D compatibility.

Does your board have split voltage? Or P54C only? So max 200MHz?

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-11-11, 13:42:

Have you seen this chart? https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/ ATI is not so good for 2D compatibility. […]
Show full quote

Hoping wrote on 2022-11-11, 13:18:

So I think the options for a Pentium 133 are Voodoo 1, TNT, PCX2 and Rage 128/XL, not the Rage or the Rage II because they are very slow.

Have you seen this chart?
https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/
ATI is not so good for 2D compatibility.

Does your board have split voltage? Or P54C only? So max 200MHz?

If single rail:
K6 233 is doable. 3.2v version.
Winchip 266 (rare)

Also,

Socket 5/7/SS7 (Voltage Interposer) Tweaker. (Released)

mwdmeyer wrote on 2022-11-11, 02:55:

They don't work in all motherboards, I think there was another post about them, Socket 7 maybe too old.

You can still find a regular old Dell of HP OEM RageXL PCI though. They were used in servers as a display adapter until maybe 10 years ago or so.
They don't have the problem of not being compatible in most motherboards.
I have two of them, not GREAT performance but not bad for what they are, and they use almost no power. They even overclock a bit.

Pentium MMX 233 aiming for the stars!

Btw, this may be of interest

Not a 133, but it’s as close as the aiming for the stars threads have gotten (so far)

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-11-11, 09:05:

3. Get yourself a S3 Trio64 for your Socket 7 system and use it for 2D only. Then look for a cheap AGP board and get yourself a cheap AGP GeForce. Easiest and fastest way.

IMO that's the best answer 😀

Boards with i440BX and PIII >= 450 MHz would be preferable but If you want to go on cheap then look for some i440LX boards with AGP slot and Celeron 333 MHz or faster. Then you can just pair it with cheap AGP cards like M64 32 MB or even GF2 MX 400.

If you don't want to pay $200 for V1 or Banshee then there's really no good alternative for P133 MHz. You can try to upgrade your Pentium to something faster like P200/P233MMX or maybe even some K6 (not sure what cpus your board support), but you still won't be able to use cheap and "fast" AGP cards and these CPUs will be slower than Celly 333 in most 3D games.

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-11-11, 13:42:

Have you seen this chart? https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/ ATI is not so good for 2D compatibility. […]
Show full quote

Hoping wrote on 2022-11-11, 13:18:

So I think the options for a Pentium 133 are Voodoo 1, TNT, PCX2 and Rage 128/XL, not the Rage or the Rage II because they are very slow.

Have you seen this chart?
https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/
ATI is not so good for 2D compatibility.

I know that, I was thinking mainly in 3D and in games corresponding to the time of a Pentium 133, that is to say 1995 to 1997.
Even so at that time, ATI is not perfect either, I also encountered strange problems; but in quality and image sharpness it surpasses many.
My opinion was focused on a limited budget, if there was no limit, a TNT would be my best option, it was at the time to accompany a 200MMX and I never regretted it.
And maybe if the budget is limited it is not an option to change the processor either, and I took that into account.

luk1999 wrote on 2022-11-11, 14:45:

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-11-11, 09:05:

3. Get yourself a S3 Trio64 for your Socket 7 system and use it for 2D only. Then look for a cheap AGP board and get yourself a cheap AGP GeForce. Easiest and fastest way.

IMO that's the best answer 😀

Boards with i440BX and PIII >= 450 MHz would be preferable but If you want to go on cheap then look for some i440LX boards with AGP slot and Celeron 333 MHz or faster. Then you can just pair it with cheap AGP cards like M64 32 MB or even GF2 MX 400.

Why so old? OP already has a system with ISA for DOS sound.
GeForce cards are Universal AGP. You can pick ANY mainboard with AGP.
You can in theory use an AGP GeForce2 with a Quadcore (overclocked to 4GHz, but only 1 core usable under Win98) and 1200MHz DDR2. But these boards ain't gonna be cheap and are total overkill for a GF2.

i was in this situation starting out .. pci cards are damn hard to find cheap..
a p133 is as has been said basically only good for upto and including games from 1996.. imo that is..
i upgraded from a 133 to a 166 and overclocked it to 200 ... i looked for ages for a p200 chip .. it is pretty hard to find a p200 chip (non mmx, mmx is no good - wrong voltage) and they are expensive.. oh and even when i did run it at 200 it was only 8% faster, so dont even bother, put the money elsewhere..
im from australia and it took me a lot of searching facebook marketplace to get a voodoo 1 ... i wasnt willing to pay the $200 ebay asking price for cards that come up once every couple of months there .. i got voodoo1 for $100 from a fb seller in australia .. but it took a couple of months of constant looking (everyday, multiple times a day).. do u need a voodoo? what games u want to play that support it?
as for other pci cards, i have to ask what games are you trying to play? the only game that i can think of that a decent 3d card will help with from 1996 is quake (actully GLquake didnt come out till jan 1997 and by that time the best systems were 200mmx, the p133 having come out in mid 1995 was getting old)..
if u want to play 3d games from 1997 on then id say get a p2 350/400 as they have agp slots and your card choices become waaaay better (cheap mx400 im thinking)..
P133 is a 94/95/96 gaming machine that doesnt really need a 3d accelerator card..
mess of a response, i know!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125545853777

I have several of these. They work good, but only half as fast as 7500.

BurntOutElectronics wrote on 2022-11-10, 14:28:

G’day everyone, […]
Show full quote

G’day everyone,

I’ve got a socket 7 Pentium 133MHz in need of some love. At the moment it’s got it’s original cirrus logic 5446 card for video. It’s nice but very limiting when it’s only a 2D card.
It seems something like a Riva 128 would be awesome but I can’t find one cheap locally (Melbourne, Victoria) so I’m in need of help in finding a card that’s well suited and where to pick one up.
Thanks
Lance

i really would get a Voodoo 1 or 2 for best experience on this CPU.
It has the best optimized API and Driver for slow Pentiums.

Otherwise, a Permedia 2 could also be a nice find and cheap.
https://vintage3d.org/3dlabs3.php

Optimum Dreamteam would be a Riva128 SGRAM 4Mb ( Best VESA Support for DOS Games, Nice 2D Quality, and very good Win3.x/Win9x Drivers ) and a Voodoo Graphics.

Idk what planet y'all are living on who are suggesting voodoos, they are the literal opposite of cheap.

TNT2 M64

kennyPENTIUMpowers wrote on 2022-11-11, 15:38:

i upgraded from a 133 to a 166 and overclocked it to 200 ... i looked for ages for a p200 chip .. it is pretty hard to find a p200 chip (non mmx, mmx is no good - wrong voltage) and they are expensive.. oh and even when i did run it at 200 it was only 8% faster, so dont even bother, put the money elsewhere..

You're overestimating the rarity of the i200.
Normal price for these in Europe is 10-15€ plus shipping when you buy from a trader (1 year warranty included).

I bought four i200, three MMX200 and one MMX233 from a scrapper for 25€ plus shipping. All untested and with bend pins, but no pins missing. This scrapper always sorts out those with broken pins. I spend 3 hours fixing the pins and they all work.
I now have:
- 2x i200 who can run 3x75MHz
- 2x i200 who run stockspeed
- 1x MMX233
- 2x MMX200 with open multi who can run 233MHz
- 1x MMX200 with locked multi
I love buying from scrappers! I also got Voodoos this way.

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-11-12, 02:43:

Idk what planet y'all are living on who are suggesting voodoos, they are the literal opposite of cheap.

TNT2 M64

A PCI TNT isn't that much cheaper than a Voodoo1.

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-11-12, 03:58:

You're overestimating the rarity of the i200.
Normal price for these in Europe is 10-15€ plus shipping when you buy from a trader (1 year warranty included).

over here in australia it is another story.. last p200 (nonmmx) went for $60 AUD (no incl shipping) on ebay.. better to put the money towards a voodoo1.. as like i said the performance increase over the 166 is minimal..

quake ramerate scores (640x400) i got on mine :
p133 = 11.9
p166 = 12.8
p200 = 13.6 (6% increase over p166, 14% over p133)

im guessing a voodoo1 would double those framerates..
but then this comes back to the issue of budget.. im guessing the OP spent $150 on the p133 system as it sits.. putting another $200 just to get a voodoo starts becoming a bit ridiculous .. 1st you have to find it .. only 1 voodoo on australian ebay at the moment, a rush for $200..

also i couldnt find 1 single PCI card on aus ebay that wasnt a S3 or crap thing like that..

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-11-11, 14:58:

You can in theory use an AGP GeForce2 with a Quadcore (overclocked to 4GHz, but only 1 core usable under Win98) and 1200MHz DDR2. But these boards ain't gonna be cheap and are total overkill for a GF2.

I took a look, and ForceWare 61.77 claims to support the Riva TNT on Windows XP, so that opens up some more options for dumb fun like that. AsRock ConRoe865PE apparently supports C2Q, and has AGP, hopefully it supports the Q9650. The final GeForce2 Windows driver seems to be 71.89 from 2005. Incidentally, apparently the last Linux driver for the GeForce2 was released in 2011.