VOGONS


First post, by Oldies

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Hello Everyone

Well my first post here,let's see...My problem is I guess simple or maybe not...I use MSN frequently so I usually play in Window mode..I'm trying that with DOSBOX...the only problem is that the image in 800X600 that is the least we can use to have a decent game is not sharp as Fullscreen. Of course if we change to ORIGINAL the window resolution it will be sharp but small as hell. So is ther any good output that would work for that? I tried all,but none worked,or maybe the resolution is not the best one for a sharp image? Any solutions?

Thanks

Reply 1 of 11, by eL_PuSHeR

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Try manually setting a desired resolution for windowed mode and also use openglnb for a crisp image.

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Reply 2 of 11, by Oldies

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Thanks for answering 😀 I'll try that..Hope it will work...Yes with openglnb I know the image gets sharper,but more pixels...But I'll try other resolutions
Thanks!

Reply 3 of 11, by Oldies

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No Luck 😖 I've tried all the available resolutions...Always in Openglnb...Is there a setting I could change to fix this issue? Or any update on DosBox 0.70?

Reply 4 of 11, by ADDiCT

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I'm no expert on this topic, but: "sharp" isn't a very objective statement. With every other resolution than the original one, there has to be some kind of stretching of the image, in order to fill the window (or the full screen, if it isn't running in the native resolution). Depending on the type of output, and the scaler used, the stretched image will look more or less "sharp", but it will never look like the original image. The only way to get a really "sharp" image in the meaning of the word, would be to use a "Simple 2x" scaler, which doubles (or quadruples) every pixel. An image enlarged with that kind of scaler would look very blocky and "aliased", as you would see every pixel "stronger" (=larger).

If you have a image editing software, you can try this for yourself: load a DOSBox screenshot, and resize it x2 without using any filters. You will see every pixel in the resulting image, much more than in the original one. If you use a filter to rescale, you will get a "smoother" image.

Does anyone know if a "Simple 2x" (i hope this term is correct) scaler is already implemented into DOSBox? I'm using the "normal2x" scaler in my config, and i do get a filtered image.

The topic is quite confusing - a screenshot of DOSBox will be 640x400 in text mode, 320x200 in VGA mode, and 640x480 in SVGA mode. I guess the only way to get a "sharp" image would be to use even multiples of these resolutions (pixels*2), like 1280x800, 640x400, and 1280x960. The first and last resolutions would be hard to achieve in a window, obviously.

The bottom line seems to be: every emulated resolution is kind of a tradeoff. You have to find the combination of size/scaler/output that looks best for you.

Reply 5 of 11, by Qbix

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normal2x is pixel doubling unless your hardware support hardware scaling. Selecting output=surface should use non-hardware scaling

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Reply 7 of 11, by ADDiCT

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??? Now i'm completely confused... Gulikoza, do you mean normal2x is always software scaling, regardless of the output method? As i wrote, i'm using normal2x as scaler, and ddraw as output. Both my windowed and fullscreen resolution are set to 800x600. Does that mean that software scaling is used in both modes?! If that's true, what do i have to do to enable hardware scaling? If i'm not completely wrong, software scaling will put load to the CPU, where hw scaling will use the GPU for scaling. I'd prefer having the GPU do the work... (;

Edit: i tried setting the scaler to "none", and i'm still getting a filtered image. So i guess, with ddraw output, the HW scaling of DirectDraw (or DirectWhatever) is used. Now, questions are starting to shoot through my head. What happens with the combination of settings i'm using (ddraw/normal2x) - is the image filtered twice?! Not that these are mission critical questions, but i like to understand the software i'm using... (;

Reply 8 of 11, by gulikoza

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yes, regardless of the output method. It used to be that normal2x used hardware scaling where available, but no more.
For your case - you are also using windowresolution. Here, hardware scaling is used. So...a 320x200 game is first software scaled to 640x400 (by normal2x) and then hardware stretched to 800x600 by ddraw. Direct3D and openglnb are the only output modes that will use point sampling (or some advanced shader for d3d case 😀) to scale the image using hardware scaling. But you also have to set scaler=none or normal2x will kick in...

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Reply 9 of 11, by MiniMax

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gulikoza wrote:

For your case - you are also using windowresolution. Here, hardware scaling is used. So...a 320x200 game is first software scaled to 640x400 (by normal2x) and then hardware stretched to 800x600 by ddraw.

And stretching 640x400 to 800x600 can not be good, right? Shouldn't that be 960x600 to keep the propertions?

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Reply 10 of 11, by alvaro84

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I think it's the most correct thing DosBox can do to 320*200 or 640*400. With today's displays we could say that those are perfect 16:10 resolutions for wide LCDs, but back then those were 4:3 resolutions with non-square pixels (as 4:3 was the only common ratio among the PC displays) and many games/demos are drawn counting on it - I have a 16:10 display and I can assure you that those programs look distorted if stretched to fullscreen. I'm glad that dosbox can do 1920*1200 with aspect correction, so I can watch them at 4:3 with black bars 😉

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Reply 11 of 11, by ADDiCT

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Gulikoza: thanks for the information!

I've tried openglnb without a scaler, but this looks plain ugly with my 800x600 window. Guess i have to play around with output/scaler/window size a bit...

MiniMax: i guess if you use aspect correction, it will be OK. I didn't notice any distortion yet.