SScorpio wrote on 2024-12-21, 20:04:

Jo22 wrote on 2024-12-21, 19:31:

Well, as someone who had no digital "home" for years, I think there are just three options.
Windows, Linux .. and macOS.

The rest are niche OSes that run on outdated hardware and have no device drivers for current hardware.

You're forgetting the current most popular OSes, iOS, Android, and ChromeOS.

These aren’t OSes. These are frameworks or runtimes designed to run on consumer devices. Toys, gadgets, in short.

Content creation, programming, film editing and so on happens on full-fledged computers.
That's were the developers of iOS, Android and ChromeOS are.
And a platform that can't be used to build itself isn't mature yet, I think.

Jo22 wrote on 2024-12-21, 22:33:

These aren’t OSes. These are frameworks or runtimes designed to run on consumer devices. Toys, gadgets, in short. […]
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These aren’t OSes. These are frameworks or runtimes designed to run on consumer devices. Toys, gadgets, in short.

Content creation, programming, film editing and so on happens on full-fledged computers.
That's were the developers of iOS, Android and ChromeOS are.
And a platform that can't be used to build itself isn't mature yet, I think.

Programming along with compiling, photo editing, and video editing can be done on those OSes just fine.

iOS is the most locked down. But Android is completely open if you don't have a locked down phone/tablet. Install it on a PC and it's Linux with a framework on top of it. So you could do anything you want with it.

It's currently estimated that ~15% of US households have only a phone or tablet. So no PCs or laptops and that percentage is getting bigger every year.

Jo22 wrote on 2024-12-21, 19:31:

Edit: My old main PC is an Mac Pro, running Windows XP by the way.
I'm using it as my PC for emulators and VMs. It's barely usable to surf the net anymore, though.
The browser is too old to even log-in into my e-mail account, even.

My laptop is a 2009 Dell E4200, C2D 1.6ghz, 4GB ram, 128GB SSD, XP Sp3, and latest chrome work really good

SScorpio wrote on 2024-12-21, 22:42:

Programming along with compiling, photo editing, and video editing can be done on those OSes just fine.

Only very basic stuff and not very well. This OS for desktop usage are really good for nothing

^Hi, that old Mac Pro here is an 2006 model (flashed to v2.1), without SSE 4 capable CPUs.
It has 24 GB of RAM and four SSDs, each for one bay (128 GB, 256GB, 1 TB, 256 GB).
Windows is Windowx XP SP3 (i386) with several patches. Mac OS X 10.6.8. is also installed on separate SSD.
The web browser is New Moon 28.10.7a1 (2024-06-21), it runs via Windows 10 compatibility mode.
Problem is that my e-mail provider (GMX) has a very bloated site full of scripts. It's too much for the hacky system. 🙁
You can technically log-in to your e-mail account, but then the menu system doesn't respond correctly anymore, the scripts are hogging the CPUs etc.

theelf wrote on 2024-12-22, 00:06:

Only very basic stuff and not very well. This OS for desktop usage are really good for nothing

Could you define "basic stuff"?

Photo editors have AI features like object removal, and effects that were a pipe dream on Photoshop version released for XP.

And video editors let you cut videos, have multiple tracks, add transitions, sync audio, and a whole lot more. All while working with 4K video and codecs that old hardware would choke on.

A large majority of people can do their computer focused jobs solely through a web browser. The world has changed and the underlying desktop environment you use no longer matters.

Jo22 wrote on 2024-12-22, 00:57:

^Hi, that old Mac Pro here is an 2006 model (flashed to v2.1), without SSE 4 capable CPUs. It has 24 GB of RAM and four SSDs, ea […]
Show full quote

^Hi, that old Mac Pro here is an 2006 model (flashed to v2.1), without SSE 4 capable CPUs.
It has 24 GB of RAM and four SSDs, each for one bay (128 GB, 256GB, 1 TB, 256 GB).
Windows is Windowx XP SP3 (i386) with several patches. Mac OS X 10.6.8. is also installed on separate SSD.
The web browser is New Moon 28.10.7a1 (2024-06-21), it runs via Windows 10 compatibility mode.
Problem is that my e-mail provider (GMX) has a very bloated site full of scripts. It's too much for the hacky system. 🙁
You can technically log-in to your e-mail account, but then the menu system doesn't respond correctly anymore, the scripts are hogging the CPUs etc.

Use chrome, new moon is sadly outdated

SScorpio wrote on 2024-12-22, 01:02:

Could you define "basic stuff"? […]
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theelf wrote on 2024-12-22, 00:06:

Only very basic stuff and not very well. This OS for desktop usage are really good for nothing

Could you define "basic stuff"?

Photo editors have AI features like object removal, and effects that were a pipe dream on Photoshop version released for XP.

And video editors let you cut videos, have multiple tracks, add transitions, sync audio, and a whole lot more. All while working with 4K video and codecs that old hardware would choke on.

A large majority of people can do their computer focused jobs solely through a web browser. The world has changed and the underlying desktop environment you use no longer matters.

Well, you already defined in your message

theelf wrote on 2024-12-22, 01:07:

Well, you already defined in your message

G0tcha, "basic stuff" is modern standard stuff that XP isn't able to do. If you do want to attempt moving on from two decades ago, someone is making a skin for XFCE that looks just like XP. So you could access to modern stuff, while not having OCD screaming at you.

https://github.com/rozniak/xfce-winxp-tc

SScorpio wrote on 2024-12-22, 01:19:

theelf wrote on 2024-12-22, 01:07:

Well, you already defined in your message

G0tcha, "basic stuff" is modern standard stuff that XP isn't able to do. If you do want to attempt moving on from two decades ago, someone is making a skin for XFCE that looks just like XP. So you could access to modern stuff, while not having OCD screaming at you.

https://github.com/rozniak/xfce-winxp-tc

No basic stuff is where you are limited to tools like you describe, you can do some stuff that the tools and os let you do, thats all. This is no modern, is just you get happy being limited. Thats fine, 99% of people dont care to be limited by OS because the tools are enough for what they need

Guy wants to use a 50yo tractor, no one blinks an eye.
Still has 100% of the utility it always had.

Jo22 wrote on 2024-12-21, 19:03:

I haven't thought about it, but it sounds like a good idea. […]
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UCyborg wrote on 2024-12-21, 18:44:

What about those of us who don't like where Windows is going, don't like legacy Windows, don't like Linux, what then? Throw computer out the window and run it over with a truck?

I haven't thought about it, but it sounds like a good idea.

Edit: Aren't we technically living in so called Post-PC era by now? 🤷‍♂️
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-PC_era

Edit: Seriously, though. From circa 2017 onwards I was stranded for several years on a Raspberry Pi 3/4 when Windows 7 was near EOL.
There was no way out. New PCs were closed-platform (UEFI/no-CSM, secure-boot) and pretty much Windows 10-only. So not worth to acquire.

But then I forget I still have a bunch of games on Steam to visit, so it'd be kinda silly to throw it out, especially with new Sound BlasterX inside. I guess I stay on Win10 on old PC until I get tired of it or its capacitors explode. And then Win11, Win12 or whatever on new one and hope OpenShell, ExplorerPatcher, QTTabBar etc. still work on it. (:

theelf wrote on 2024-12-22, 01:07:

Use chrome, new moon is sadly outdated

Good idea, but unfortunately Chrome is not my thing. I don't like supporting Google/Chrome. It's a personal decision, I suppose.
I've been always more of a Netscape Navigator and Firefox person.
Except for the few Windows 98 years with Internet Explorer 5, I think, were Firefox wasn't out yet and Netscape being obsolete.
I've kept using Firefox even after my whole family moved over to Chrome.
Using Chromium on the Raspberry was the most I could bring myself to do.

Jo22 wrote on 2024-12-23, 02:21:

Good idea, but unfortunately Chrome is not my thing. I don't like supporting Google/Chrome. It's a personal decision, I suppose. […]
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theelf wrote on 2024-12-22, 01:07:

Use chrome, new moon is sadly outdated

Good idea, but unfortunately Chrome is not my thing. I don't like supporting Google/Chrome. It's a personal decision, I suppose.
I've been always more of a Netscape Navigator and Firefox person.
Except for the few Windows 98 years with Internet Explorer 5, I think, were Firefox wasn't out yet and Netscape being obsolete.
I've kept using Firefox even after my whole family moved over to Chrome.
Using Chromium on the Raspberry was the most I could bring myself to do.

Im not a big fan of chrome neither, but both forgot XP users some time ago, is not that mozilla did a effort to support XP anyways

In my case i just want to continue using XP as much possible, and if chrome is easy to backport, well... is the winner here

While I'm a bit to knee deep when it comes to Google's services, I will use a browser other than Chromium if I can. And on PC, I definitely can! From my personal experience, Chromium is only really needed for WebGL games like Counter-Strike and for specialized web apps using stuff like Web MIDI, Web Serial, WebUSB. YMMV.

Choices are rather limited when it comes to web browsers IMO. Win10 + Pale Moon is a rare OS / browser combination that gives me good font rendering (to my eyes) across most web sites with its DirectWrite backend inheriting system ClearType parameters. Except for some "Googlized" fonts that come out all grey and deformed, for those odd sites I just flip remote font blocking switch in uBO.

Mozilla fucked that up as well, for Chromium there is Chrome Font Super Enhancer, but it's annoying since it basically applies CSS after it's already rendered, so there's always flashing effect, particularly noticeable when it comes to dynamic content, eg. suggestions in search boxes. And it does nothing for browser GUI. Can't even move stupid extension buttons around, they're hardcoded to be in that one spot. And there's no OpenShell, ExplorerPatcher etc. for Chrome!

Fortunately for my humble needs, I don't need a backup browser often. But UXP browsers can suck big time, either web sites don't work or need hacks to work, missing useful modern extensions... If one has to constantly fight with the browser, then it's not suitable. Looks like it was easier to port recent Chromium to XP rather Firefox. It's a hackjob rather than a proper port IMO, but if that's what XP fanatics like, more power to them.