Scythifuge wrote on 2022-10-26, 15:11:

Is there a way to lock the mixer settings on SB cards?

I never heard about such a feature.

bttr wrote on 2022-10-26, 19:58:

Scythifuge wrote on 2022-10-26, 15:11:

Is there a way to lock the mixer settings on SB cards?

I never heard about such a feature.

I found a thread on Vogons ( MIDIto r12 (Midi and FM redirection, Mixer locking, Sound Blaster fixes) ) with a utility which uses only 1k on my machine to lock the mixer. It worked to hear MT-32 music while play MM3. However, the digitized speech can barely be heard. When the game turned down Line 1, I could hear the speech, but had to crank the volume. It seems that MM3 simply does weird things with the SB mixer. Other than the other thread on Vogons about this same issue, I have yet to come across others with the same issue, though I have to imagine that there were many players simultaneously using a Roland MT-32 and a SB product which is affected by this bug...

Is there anyone else with a 486DX2/66, an AWE32 card (CT2760,) a Roland MPU-IPC-T with an MT-32, and a copy of Might and Magic III which they can test to see if the bug can be replicated? Upon further testing using midito from the above link, I can hear digitized voices in the intro and the Roland music, but no sound effects. Getting into the game is the same: no sound effects, can hear music...

What sound effects? MM3 only has digital speech through SB (intro and ending). In the game, all SFX are through adlib. Under MT32 I recall it was missing quite a few sfx and the ones heard weren't as impressive as Adlib's (at least to me).

That being said, yes I've seen this mixer issue with the AWE32.. not on MM3 though but on the 7th Guest. Very faint digital SFX in-game, and once you exit the game the mixer is all messed up.
The solution for 7th Guest was to use Sound Blaster as the digital sfx card instead of SBPro/16/32 in the setup.

wbahnassi wrote on 2022-10-27, 15:11:

What sound effects? MM3 only has digital speech through SB (intro and ending). In the game, all SFX are through adlib. Under MT32 I recall it was missing quite a few sfx and the ones heard weren't as impressive as Adlib's (at least to me).

That being said, yes I've seen this mixer issue with the AWE32.. not on MM3 though but on the 7th Guest. Very faint digital SFX in-game, and once you exit the game the mixer is all messed up.
The solution for 7th Guest was to use Sound Blaster as the digital sfx card instead of SBPro/16/32 in the setup.

When selecting blaster under the setup, there are sound effects, including the sounds of footsteps when walking around. Under DOSBox, selecting ROland+Blaster provides munt music and all of the speech and sound effects. On my real setup, I can't get Roland+Blaster to work properly.

Hmmm I looked at a few MM3 MT-32 videos and they all have nice SFX. I think these nice SFX come from the MT-32 as well.
I have a Pentium 2 with AWE32 and MT-32 I can test for you. Will give it a try tomorrow and let you know what I get.

On AWE32 3990 with MT-32 on a PII IBM machine, I also get the same problem as you. Very faint digital fx, and no music. Leave the game and the mixer has muted line-in and lowered Voice to about 70, which should still be pretty audible actually, yet you barely hear it in the game.
Using MIDITo, I was able to lock the mixer and apply DSP fixes, this brought back the MT-32 music.. but speech is still barely audible. After exiting, the mixer is indeed fully retained. So the low speech/sfx issue is not related to mixer volume.

Since the 3990 is PnP, I changed IRQ5 to be IRQ7 just in case, didn't make a difference.

Also, the digital speech/sfx issue is not related to MM3's Roland+Blaster option. It happens even when choosing Sound Blaster only. So I'd say MM3 and the AWE32 aren't good friends. I wanted to also try DMA 0 & 3 instead of DMA 1 but I ran out of time.. probably you can try it and see if it fixes the sfx volume in the game.

And here's a link that talks about getting sounds from the game's Roland option.

https://rpgwatch.com/forum/threads/might-and- … of-terra.21636/

Apparently you will need a CM-32L as the sfx come from its additional patches which are not present in the MT-32. Digitized sound is only used for speech in this game.

wbahnassi wrote on 2022-10-29, 12:35:

On AWE32 3990 with MT-32 on a PII IBM machine, I also get the same problem as you. Very faint digital fx, and no music. Leave th […]
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On AWE32 3990 with MT-32 on a PII IBM machine, I also get the same problem as you. Very faint digital fx, and no music. Leave the game and the mixer has muted line-in and lowered Voice to about 70, which should still be pretty audible actually, yet you barely hear it in the game.
Using MIDITo, I was able to lock the mixer and apply DSP fixes, this brought back the MT-32 music.. but speech is still barely audible. After exiting, the mixer is indeed fully retained. So the low speech/sfx issue is not related to mixer volume.

Since the 3990 is PnP, I changed IRQ5 to be IRQ7 just in case, didn't make a difference.

Also, the digital speech/sfx issue is not related to MM3's Roland+Blaster option. It happens even when choosing Sound Blaster only. So I'd say MM3 and the AWE32 aren't good friends. I wanted to also try DMA 0 & 3 instead of DMA 1 but I ran out of time.. probably you can try it and see if it fixes the sfx volume in the game.

Thank you for your efforts. In a way, it is good to know that it isn't just my card, though it also sucks since I don't know if it can be fixed. I found a site where someone hacked the files for MM3, so maybe something can be done, but that is beyond my skill set. I read that 5 & 6 use the same engine as 3, and the sound/music works on my World of Xeen install, so the potential for a fix seems possible. I wanted to play the game on my real 486, but it may be that I have to play that one on 86box or Dosbox.

Post the link to this site and probably someone could assist you in patching.

bttr wrote on 2022-10-31, 13:30:

Post the link to this site and probably someone could assist you in patching.

Sounds good!

http://www.jeffludwig.com/mm3/resources.php

EDIT: I downloaded the decrypted files from the above link, and there are 0x39bc-roland.drv and 0x9953-blaster.drv files in there, so there is hope! I also messaged the owner of the site through his page to see if he is still around and might know something about the problem.

I wanted to also report that the SB16 ASP (CT-1740) sound card exhibits the same issue, so the bug predates the AWE32. The SB16 even has a LOCK option in its mixer, but still that was not effective against what MM3 does to volume. Line-in is zeroed out, and Voice is lowered after game exit. This was tested in a Pentium MMX 233 build in DOS6.22.

wbahnassi wrote on 2022-11-11, 04:21:

I wanted to also report that the SB16 ASP (CT-1740) sound card exhibits the same issue, so the bug predates the AWE32. The SB16 even has a LOCK option in its mixer, but still that was not effective against what MM3 does to volume. Line-in is zeroed out, and Voice is lowered after game exit. This was tested in a Pentium MMX 233 build in DOS6.22.

Thank you for testing and reporting! It is bizarre that no one before now has discovered the bug, as I have to imagine that there are many people with SB16's who play(ed) MM3. I have been working on some things, though at some point, I plan on downloading a hex editor and examining the driver files from MM3 and World of Xeen and comparing them. I have no idea what I am doing and have never done anything like this, but I imagine that my plan is the way to go. Since they are the same engine and Xeen works perfectly fine with my AWE32 and MT-32, I wonder if MM3 can simply be repacked with the Sound Blaster driver file from Xeen. Of course, it probably won't be that easy, because it never is. However, it can't hurt to try! The files at the above links allow unpacking and repacking of the game files, and the guy who worked on MM3 cited the Xeen utilities. If there isn't anything special/Xeen-specific in the Xeen driver file, it could be the fix that is needed.

More update after some testing. I slowed down my P233MMX (SB16ASP), and the game works perfectly with the Sound Blaster option. Both adlib music and digital speech play nice at proper volume. Choosing Roland+Blaster still mutes line-in on the SB, but digital speech can now be heard at proper volume too. So we have two issues here:
1- On faster computers, voice volume is lowered.
2- Line-in is zeroed for Roland option.

Fix for 1 is to slow down computer.

Fix for 2 is still unknown (aside from using SBPro or a non-Creative sound card). But a workaround is to feed the MT-32 output to an external mixer instead of into the SB card line-in. This works and you can hear both speech and music fine on SB16 ASP or AWE32. I have a mixer that allows individual volume controls per input, so it's even better than relying on the SB's mixer.

wbahnassi wrote on 2022-11-20, 17:10:

More update after some testing. I slowed down my P233MMX (SB16ASP), and the game works perfectly with the Sound Blaster option. […]
Show full quote

More update after some testing. I slowed down my P233MMX (SB16ASP), and the game works perfectly with the Sound Blaster option. Both adlib music and digital speech play nice at proper volume. Choosing Roland+Blaster still mutes line-in on the SB, but digital speech can now be heard at proper volume too. So we have two issues here:
1- On faster computers, voice volume is lowered.
2- Line-in is zeroed for Roland option.

Fix for 1 is to slow down computer.

Fix for 2 is still unknown (aside from using SBPro or a non-Creative sound card). But a workaround is to feed the MT-32 output to an external mixer instead of into the SB card line-in. This works and you can hear both speech and music fine on SB16 ASP or AWE32. I have a mixer that allows individual volume controls per input, so it's even better than relying on the SB's mixer.

Interesting. I have a copy of moslo deluxe (planning to test the cpu emulation modes,) so I can set up a batch file for MM3. I haven't tinkered with hex editors or anything like that just yet, though I still plan to do that, at some point. I am currently using Creative Labs/Cambridge Soundworks 4.1 speakers, and I have the rear speakers plugged into the Line Out on my AWE32 and the front ones connected to the Speaker Out. I can get adapters/cables and connect the rear speakers to the external midi units and bypass the Line IN bug. I may do that for now, though I do hope to tinker with the files.